whst would the status of English be in the EU if Britain hadn't joined?

Well, you'd still have English as the lingua-franca for international relations, so I would imagine it's status would be pretty high.
 
Last edited:
Not sure it matters by the post war period US money (NATO and Marshall aid etc) makes it a given that 'English' will be the lingua-franca for international relations....
 
What would the status of English be in the EU if Britain had never been a member?

Less formal status, but informally at least as much if not more. It's still going to be the most likely third language two people from forex Portugal and Denmark are going to have in common after all (IIRC the EU's translators work on this basis in OTL - if something needs translating from A to B then the translation is more likely to go A to English to B than directly for everything except the most widely used language pairs such as French and German), and without the UK being in it will have the additional benefit of being a "neutral" language which it doesn't have now.
 
Agree with previous posters. English is lingua franca anyway so EU would probably still use that. And English is official language of Ireland and Malta so English would be still one of official languages of EU.
 
Agree with previous posters. English is lingua franca anyway so EU would probably still use that. And English is official language of Ireland and Malta so English would be still one of official languages of EU.

Though Ireland may not end up joining EU if Britain didn't, because their economy was highly dependent on Britain's back then...
 
It may in fact be higher. Being the language of a non-member, it would be politically neutral, and less divisive.
 
Joining in 1973, your most likely right. Later on not at sure that you are correct.

Without joining the EU, I wonder would you see the OTL growth in the FDI sector and the investment in infrastructure. I'd think a delay would still leave Ireland dependent on the UK economy, with more limited growth in the US trade.
 
I guess the most important change would be less the general usage of English, which still would be an official language, thanks to Ireland and probably the main language shared by Europeans given the global importance. But it might prevent English from being the third "procedural language", one used in reaching during the procedures below the public radar, where all official languages are to be used. OTL German had a hard stance against French and English in that regard, not least since German governments did not bother to quarrel for an equal number of business being conducted in German (a now pensioned friend of my father used to work for interior and enviromental ministry and said in most meetings in Brussels it was easiest to just accept French as language of the day).

With English out of the picure German either gets a stronger position as one of two procedural languages almost on par with todays role of French in the EU or French becomes dominant as procedural language, which probably would spread its teaching and knowledge in the (well-educated part of the) general population.
 
If we look outside of the organisation of the EU, it probably wouldn't make a lot of difference. English will still dominate as a second language, because of American and to a lesser degree English cultural dominance. For example there are very few German tv shows, movies or music populair in the Netherlands and the influence of France has evaporated even more. As a consequence of this many people in the Netherlands don't speak German anymore and France is completely disappearing as a 3rd/4th language. It has even seriously been suggested to stop teaching French in high school. I have no doubt this will not change. Besides culture, the English language English will still dominate the economic and financial world. London is the economic and financial core of Europe, while New York it is for .....well..... the world. English will still dominate the scientific world. Basicly outside the organisation of the EU English will still dominate.

Within the EU itself German and France will try to dominate and become the most important language within the organisation. I think especialy the French will try to enforce their language, but I think it the smaller states, especialy Scandinavia and the Netherlands, but probably also the eastern European states will resist it. They will either force English to become the number one language or complete equality for all languages. So I expect some minor language struggle within the EU, which ends with all languages becoming equal, while no language will dominate. Lets face it everybody speaks English, while most people don't speak either French or German.
 
Last edited:

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Almost certainly unchanged.

The U.S. is still the largest economy, has (in many cases unfortunately) the highest profile in mass media and entertainment, and the UK, in or out of the EU is far too vast a market to ignore.

English is so common that it is almost inescapable.
 

Pangur

Donor
Without joining the EU, I wonder would you see the OTL growth in the FDI sector and the investment in infrastructure. I'd think a delay would still leave Ireland dependent on the UK economy, with more limited growth in the US trade.

No arguments from me on the above. The thing is however you have also given a really good reason for why Ireland would have joined at at a later date
 

Delta Force

Banned
French was historically the language of diplomacy until fairly recently. If the United Kingdom doesn't join the European Union then French might have a higher profile internationally between France's major role in the EU and its colonial influences.
 
Top