Who's The Doctor? A TL
- Thread starter DAv
- Start date
Well, the people running the show for wrestling in the US are certainly going to know about the Hogan heel turn, but the average fan really isn't. Wrestling is experiencing its OTL downturn here as well and there isn't going to be much of a spotlight focused on Hogan right now in the mainstream. It'll come as a shock to quite a number of fans when the internet becomes a thing and they'll see footage of Hogan heeling it up in the UK. Thanks for the kind words, next chapter will be an in-depth run down of the show itself.
Thanks. I'll try and keep the momentum going until my attention diverts elsewhere, as it is wont to do.
Chapter Thirty-Three
Part Thirty-Three: Clash of Champions:
With the weather being clear and sunny for the show, Summer War '93 opened up with the 82,000 strong crowd clamouring for the show to start. Broadcast over ITV, the show aired on the 22nd August 1993 to an audience of millions in the UK. With commentary supplied by Shirley Crabtree, Jim Cornette and Andi Peters, the event was hyped up beyond belief as the first match started.
It being a triple threat between three different styles, the crowd had two faces to cheer for in the form of Norman Smiley and Brian Pillman. Johnny Kidd had the gimmick of an old timer who refused to move on to the current methods of wrestling and turned his ire towards fellow wrestlers and the crowds for going with the 'worst' style. Brian Pillman took offence to this and the cowardly Smiley was dragged in for being in the wrong place at the wrong time as the previous two clashed.
The match was set with all three men showing off their distinct styles to get the better of the other. Johnny Kidd managed to control the pace of the match at first, using his experience and cheap tactics to get the better of his opponents. This was reversed due to the unpredictability of Norman Smiley's own frantic style and Pillman using his high-flying techniques to great effect. With a crossbody from the top rope, Pillman managed to end the match by pinning Kidd and showing that the new styles of wrestling could match the old very well.
Following that came the second match where another veteran was fighting a younger wrestler, although for different reasons. Johnny Saint had maintained a steady, if unspectacular record during the early 90's and retained his popularity. For American wrestler Shawn Michaels though, Saint was a man who needed to be put out to pasture and let a younger man take his place. Never one to back down from a challenge, Saint had agreed to a match against Michaels to show that he could still stick around with the younger wrestlers.
Both men were determined to bring their top game to the bout, the flashier style of Michaels tempered by how much the crowd disliked him for disrespecting Saint. The cocky, young wrestler soon found his momentum consistently halted by Saint sending him to the mat with his mastery of various holds. An attempt by Michaels to finish his opponent off with a back suplex was reversed into an armlock that saw the former cling on, before the referee eventually called for the bell, giving Saint the victory via submission.
Up next was a six man tag match as Billy Robinson brought forth major talents from his time in Japan to challenge the British members of Joint Promotions. With some familiar faces and new, Robinson wanted to show how his chosen wrestlers were the best around, saying that the skills he had learned had all been put into his three chosen wrestlers and then put an open challenge to any three men from the roster to match his selected group. Dave Taylor, Danny Boy Collins and Doc Dean all rose to the challenge, taking on Nagasaki, Masahiro Chono and Hiro Saito in single matches before the six-man tag match at Summer War '93.
All six men looked to show that they were the more cohesive team as they clashed, the recently turned Dave Taylor the centre of some suspicion by his teammates. It was this suspicion that allowed the Japanese wrestlers to capitalise, Nagasaki leading the attempts to isolate the opposing team and wear them down. The victory for the Japanese team was clinched when Doc Dean hesitated in taking a tag from Dave Taylor, leading to Nagasaki sending Taylor off the ropes before hitting Dean with a Shining Wizard to pick up the victory.
The fourth bout came in the form of a match long in the making. Having secured his place as Openweight Champion a year prior, Steven Regal had held onto the belt by hook and by crook and had cheated himself out of many thin scrapes. Having had enough of this, Johnny Smith, the proclaimed 'gentleman' of Joint Promotions, decided to take down Regal once and for all as he challenged him to the belt. Regal, rankling at anyone besides himself being considered a 'gentleman', accepted the challenge.
Much to no one's surprise, the match started with Regal trying to get what cheap shots he could in, attacking before the bell had even rung. Smith wasn't one to take something like this lying down however and his tenacious nature showed as he fought back, using his superior strength to toss Regal around. The Champion refused to go down without a fight though, struggling to fight back before eventually slipping a hand into his tights and taking out his trusty knuckle dusters to launch a strong right against Smith. The challenger dodged it before slapping the dusters away and then sending Regal crashing down to the mat with a British Bomb. Amid the roaring of the crowd, Smith celebrated as he became the new Openweight Champion.
From one Championship bout, another followed as the Celtic Connection, Irish David Finlay and Scottish Drew McDonald, took on the American Steiner Brothers. The two-time tag champs had kept a strong hold on their belts and the Steiners had come to Joint Promotions after hearing about the level of competition. Eager for any team that was willing to step up to them, the Celtic Connection accepted the challenge in what promised to be a knock down brawl.
From the very outset, this turned out to be true. As a contrast to the earlier technical and fast matches, the match for the Tag Team Championships was an all out brawl between the two teams. No quarter was given or taken by either side as they looked to basically hammer the other down until they couldn't get back up. Both sides did this very well with hard hitting strikes and moves that echoed throughout the stadium. For all their effort though, the Steiners couldn't quite bring an end to it as instead, Rick went down thanks to the combined Double Powerslam that earned the Celtic Connection another successful title defence.
The penultimate match was next as the utterly viscous Cactus Jack was looking for revenge. Having lost to Robbie Brookside in a high profile match two months prior, Jack was on the look out for revenge, recruiting a 'friend' from the US to help him cut a swathe of destruction through Joint Promotions. Vader helped Cactus Jack dominate many local wrestlers before Brookside returned with the fan favourite Japanese wrestler, Tiger Mask as both men looked to put an end to Jack's violent rampages once and for all.
With Jack and Vader being larger and formidable opponents, even the talented Brookside and Mask were hard pressed to counter their sheer strength and power. They managed to keep things almost equal however, using their greater speed and athletic abilities to keep the opposing team off balance. Despite the heroic efforts though, Vader and Jack proved to be too much for both men, eventually managing to dominate both towards the end of the match as Vader sent them crashing down to the mat with a Vader Bomb and Jack himself planted their skulls to the ground with a Double Arm DDT. With the match won, it looked as if both men were unstoppable.
The final bout of the night saw the crowd becoming restless as they craned to get a good view of the ring, wanting to see the ultimate clash of champions. Hogan had spent months crowing about his accomplishments, of being the greatest Champion of all time and he would prove it by taking the British Heavyweight belt from Davey Boy. The Bulldog, while acknowledging that Hogan was perhaps his toughest opponent yet, refused to believe that the competition was better anywhere than in Joint Promotions and was eager to rise to the challenge.
As the two men met face to face in the ring, the crowd clamouring for it to get started, the tension broke as Davey Boy landed the first blow, the exchange of punches starting the titan struggle off. Both men used their great strength as much as they were able, Davey Boy holding Hogan up in his delayed standing suplex for close to thirty seconds before sending him crashing down to the mat. Hogan was no slouch either, managing to throw Davey Boy around the ring a few times and using impactful moves to keep him down. For a moment, it even seemed as if the challenger was going to win after a Big Boot set Bulldog up for Hogan's Leg Drop. At the very last second though, Bulldog rolled out of the way and got to his feet, scooping the dazed Hogan onto his shoulder before rushing forward and slamming him down to the mat with his Running Powerslam.
After the three count was made, Bulldog celebrated along with the roaring crowd, holding up the belt high as thousands of camera flashes all happened at once. One final piece came to be with Hogan facing Bulldog and holding out his hand to shake, admitting he'd been bested. Taking it, Bulldog shook hands with Hogan for a memorable match before Davey Boy was able to bask in the limelight before the cameras were turned off on British wrestling's most memorable event.
Summer War '93 represented the high point of British wrestling and acted as a swan song for its popularity. As the mid-90's progressed, Joint Promotions saw the decline in business that started in the middle of 1992 continue, the event only delaying the inevitable. With the British Bulldog losing the Championship belt to Cactus Jack two months after Summer War, many felt that it truly represented the end of an era that had begun in Albert Hall nearly four years previously. British wrestling has yet to truly reach the heights set during that period once again, but never reached the lows of American wrestling post-2000.
Summer War '93 represents the pinnacle of British wrestling to many and is a cornerstone of the sport in its native country. At the centre of it all is Davey Boy Smith, one of the most popular sportsman from the UK and the image of him celebrating in the aftermath of his victory over Hogan remains a treasured pop-culture image.
“Do you even have to ask?”
With the weather being clear and sunny for the show, Summer War '93 opened up with the 82,000 strong crowd clamouring for the show to start. Broadcast over ITV, the show aired on the 22nd August 1993 to an audience of millions in the UK. With commentary supplied by Shirley Crabtree, Jim Cornette and Andi Peters, the event was hyped up beyond belief as the first match started.
It being a triple threat between three different styles, the crowd had two faces to cheer for in the form of Norman Smiley and Brian Pillman. Johnny Kidd had the gimmick of an old timer who refused to move on to the current methods of wrestling and turned his ire towards fellow wrestlers and the crowds for going with the 'worst' style. Brian Pillman took offence to this and the cowardly Smiley was dragged in for being in the wrong place at the wrong time as the previous two clashed.
The match was set with all three men showing off their distinct styles to get the better of the other. Johnny Kidd managed to control the pace of the match at first, using his experience and cheap tactics to get the better of his opponents. This was reversed due to the unpredictability of Norman Smiley's own frantic style and Pillman using his high-flying techniques to great effect. With a crossbody from the top rope, Pillman managed to end the match by pinning Kidd and showing that the new styles of wrestling could match the old very well.
Following that came the second match where another veteran was fighting a younger wrestler, although for different reasons. Johnny Saint had maintained a steady, if unspectacular record during the early 90's and retained his popularity. For American wrestler Shawn Michaels though, Saint was a man who needed to be put out to pasture and let a younger man take his place. Never one to back down from a challenge, Saint had agreed to a match against Michaels to show that he could still stick around with the younger wrestlers.
Both men were determined to bring their top game to the bout, the flashier style of Michaels tempered by how much the crowd disliked him for disrespecting Saint. The cocky, young wrestler soon found his momentum consistently halted by Saint sending him to the mat with his mastery of various holds. An attempt by Michaels to finish his opponent off with a back suplex was reversed into an armlock that saw the former cling on, before the referee eventually called for the bell, giving Saint the victory via submission.
Up next was a six man tag match as Billy Robinson brought forth major talents from his time in Japan to challenge the British members of Joint Promotions. With some familiar faces and new, Robinson wanted to show how his chosen wrestlers were the best around, saying that the skills he had learned had all been put into his three chosen wrestlers and then put an open challenge to any three men from the roster to match his selected group. Dave Taylor, Danny Boy Collins and Doc Dean all rose to the challenge, taking on Nagasaki, Masahiro Chono and Hiro Saito in single matches before the six-man tag match at Summer War '93.
All six men looked to show that they were the more cohesive team as they clashed, the recently turned Dave Taylor the centre of some suspicion by his teammates. It was this suspicion that allowed the Japanese wrestlers to capitalise, Nagasaki leading the attempts to isolate the opposing team and wear them down. The victory for the Japanese team was clinched when Doc Dean hesitated in taking a tag from Dave Taylor, leading to Nagasaki sending Taylor off the ropes before hitting Dean with a Shining Wizard to pick up the victory.
The fourth bout came in the form of a match long in the making. Having secured his place as Openweight Champion a year prior, Steven Regal had held onto the belt by hook and by crook and had cheated himself out of many thin scrapes. Having had enough of this, Johnny Smith, the proclaimed 'gentleman' of Joint Promotions, decided to take down Regal once and for all as he challenged him to the belt. Regal, rankling at anyone besides himself being considered a 'gentleman', accepted the challenge.
Much to no one's surprise, the match started with Regal trying to get what cheap shots he could in, attacking before the bell had even rung. Smith wasn't one to take something like this lying down however and his tenacious nature showed as he fought back, using his superior strength to toss Regal around. The Champion refused to go down without a fight though, struggling to fight back before eventually slipping a hand into his tights and taking out his trusty knuckle dusters to launch a strong right against Smith. The challenger dodged it before slapping the dusters away and then sending Regal crashing down to the mat with a British Bomb. Amid the roaring of the crowd, Smith celebrated as he became the new Openweight Champion.
From one Championship bout, another followed as the Celtic Connection, Irish David Finlay and Scottish Drew McDonald, took on the American Steiner Brothers. The two-time tag champs had kept a strong hold on their belts and the Steiners had come to Joint Promotions after hearing about the level of competition. Eager for any team that was willing to step up to them, the Celtic Connection accepted the challenge in what promised to be a knock down brawl.
From the very outset, this turned out to be true. As a contrast to the earlier technical and fast matches, the match for the Tag Team Championships was an all out brawl between the two teams. No quarter was given or taken by either side as they looked to basically hammer the other down until they couldn't get back up. Both sides did this very well with hard hitting strikes and moves that echoed throughout the stadium. For all their effort though, the Steiners couldn't quite bring an end to it as instead, Rick went down thanks to the combined Double Powerslam that earned the Celtic Connection another successful title defence.
The penultimate match was next as the utterly viscous Cactus Jack was looking for revenge. Having lost to Robbie Brookside in a high profile match two months prior, Jack was on the look out for revenge, recruiting a 'friend' from the US to help him cut a swathe of destruction through Joint Promotions. Vader helped Cactus Jack dominate many local wrestlers before Brookside returned with the fan favourite Japanese wrestler, Tiger Mask as both men looked to put an end to Jack's violent rampages once and for all.
With Jack and Vader being larger and formidable opponents, even the talented Brookside and Mask were hard pressed to counter their sheer strength and power. They managed to keep things almost equal however, using their greater speed and athletic abilities to keep the opposing team off balance. Despite the heroic efforts though, Vader and Jack proved to be too much for both men, eventually managing to dominate both towards the end of the match as Vader sent them crashing down to the mat with a Vader Bomb and Jack himself planted their skulls to the ground with a Double Arm DDT. With the match won, it looked as if both men were unstoppable.
The final bout of the night saw the crowd becoming restless as they craned to get a good view of the ring, wanting to see the ultimate clash of champions. Hogan had spent months crowing about his accomplishments, of being the greatest Champion of all time and he would prove it by taking the British Heavyweight belt from Davey Boy. The Bulldog, while acknowledging that Hogan was perhaps his toughest opponent yet, refused to believe that the competition was better anywhere than in Joint Promotions and was eager to rise to the challenge.
As the two men met face to face in the ring, the crowd clamouring for it to get started, the tension broke as Davey Boy landed the first blow, the exchange of punches starting the titan struggle off. Both men used their great strength as much as they were able, Davey Boy holding Hogan up in his delayed standing suplex for close to thirty seconds before sending him crashing down to the mat. Hogan was no slouch either, managing to throw Davey Boy around the ring a few times and using impactful moves to keep him down. For a moment, it even seemed as if the challenger was going to win after a Big Boot set Bulldog up for Hogan's Leg Drop. At the very last second though, Bulldog rolled out of the way and got to his feet, scooping the dazed Hogan onto his shoulder before rushing forward and slamming him down to the mat with his Running Powerslam.
After the three count was made, Bulldog celebrated along with the roaring crowd, holding up the belt high as thousands of camera flashes all happened at once. One final piece came to be with Hogan facing Bulldog and holding out his hand to shake, admitting he'd been bested. Taking it, Bulldog shook hands with Hogan for a memorable match before Davey Boy was able to bask in the limelight before the cameras were turned off on British wrestling's most memorable event.
- Synopsis of Summer War '93
Summer War '93 represented the high point of British wrestling and acted as a swan song for its popularity. As the mid-90's progressed, Joint Promotions saw the decline in business that started in the middle of 1992 continue, the event only delaying the inevitable. With the British Bulldog losing the Championship belt to Cactus Jack two months after Summer War, many felt that it truly represented the end of an era that had begun in Albert Hall nearly four years previously. British wrestling has yet to truly reach the heights set during that period once again, but never reached the lows of American wrestling post-2000.
Summer War '93 represents the pinnacle of British wrestling to many and is a cornerstone of the sport in its native country. At the centre of it all is Davey Boy Smith, one of the most popular sportsman from the UK and the image of him celebrating in the aftermath of his victory over Hogan remains a treasured pop-culture image.
- Extract from 'From The Ashes: The Rise of British Wrestling', 2012
“Do you even have to ask?”
- Extract from an interview with Davey Boy Smith, when asked what the favourite moment of his career was, 2017
Same as any other time, planned out the match ahead of time and then acted it out.
Glad Davey Boy Smith survives to 2017, at least...
Of course, British wrestling has already dealt with one bad personality ITTL (I would presume) before Shawn Michaels: Tom Billington, aka the Dynamite Kid (who was Davey Boy Smith's cousin in RL; he was also a bad influence on Davey). Billington, IOTL, if we go by Bret Hart's book (have you read that, @DAv?) and other books (even Billington's own), was a massive asshole who would, among other things, blade wrestlers too deep, drug them when it was their turn to drive, etc.; he even put an unloaded gun in his wife's mouth once (he also beat the crap out of her on a regular basis; his wife was the sister of Bret Hart's first wife, Julie). Chris Benoit adopted the Dynamite Kid as a role model, and we all know how that ended...
Mick Foley says that, in his second match ever, Dynamite hit him with a clothesline that left Foley unable to eat solid food for weeks and also injured his jaw to the point that it would dislocate easily for the rest of his career. He also slapped the Honky Tonk Man until he cried (if you believe Honky) and bullied Jacques Rougeau (aka the Mountie in the WWF) to the point that the latter broke his teeth and jaw. Also, when Davey Boy was starting out in Stampede Wrestling, Dynamite offered to blade him (over Bret Hart's objections) and lacerated him so seriously that Bret Hart had to stop the match and take him to the hospital because Bret feared that he would bleed to death (this, as I mentioned, was Billington's cousin).
It would take several posts to detail all of Billington's jackassery; I bring him up because, compared to him, Michaels' antics would be tame for Davey Boy and the wrestlers, IMO (they would still let Michaels know if he got out of line, though)...
Of course, British wrestling has already dealt with one bad personality ITTL (I would presume) before Shawn Michaels: Tom Billington, aka the Dynamite Kid (who was Davey Boy Smith's cousin in RL; he was also a bad influence on Davey). Billington, IOTL, if we go by Bret Hart's book (have you read that, @DAv?) and other books (even Billington's own), was a massive asshole who would, among other things, blade wrestlers too deep, drug them when it was their turn to drive, etc.; he even put an unloaded gun in his wife's mouth once (he also beat the crap out of her on a regular basis; his wife was the sister of Bret Hart's first wife, Julie). Chris Benoit adopted the Dynamite Kid as a role model, and we all know how that ended...
Mick Foley says that, in his second match ever, Dynamite hit him with a clothesline that left Foley unable to eat solid food for weeks and also injured his jaw to the point that it would dislocate easily for the rest of his career. He also slapped the Honky Tonk Man until he cried (if you believe Honky) and bullied Jacques Rougeau (aka the Mountie in the WWF) to the point that the latter broke his teeth and jaw. Also, when Davey Boy was starting out in Stampede Wrestling, Dynamite offered to blade him (over Bret Hart's objections) and lacerated him so seriously that Bret Hart had to stop the match and take him to the hospital because Bret feared that he would bleed to death (this, as I mentioned, was Billington's cousin).
It would take several posts to detail all of Billington's jackassery; I bring him up because, compared to him, Michaels' antics would be tame for Davey Boy and the wrestlers, IMO (they would still let Michaels know if he got out of line, though)...
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After avoiding the trap door incident and the car crash which really kicked off his substance abuse problems, I can imagine him doing so easily enough.
On another note, which actors from the early 90's would be good to play the Flash or Captain Marvel (DC one)? I have some inklings, but thought I'd look into what other people thought.
Ah, sorry for not noticing this until now. I suppose the key difference here would be that Billington was Davey Boy's cousin and a relatively big name at the time. Most of the other wrestlers would have been... tolerable of him for reasons they won't have from Michaels. Shawn here is a person who's just come over from the States and been a whiny little arsehole in the back while trying to get himself over at the expense of others in the matches. In short, he's no one special thinking he's much bigger than he is. It wasn't mentioned in the write up, but Johnny Saint did indeed give him a good smack during the match to keep him in line.
Chapter Thirty-Four
Part Thirty-Four: The Brave & The Bold:
“The kind of things that people wanted to do with Green Lantern would have been impossible only five years before. The Graphics Group had really pushed the envelope with computer based effects thanks to their work on Ghostbusters. Television was seeing a revolution thanks to the effort they had put in. After that, came the time for the wider scope of movies to be used and Warner Brothers was offering us a great chance to take things to their greatest level yet. To better pool our resources, Graphics Group finally merged with Industrial Light & Magic before taking on our first major role in the movies.”
“It was my experience with special effects which helped me get the role as director for Green Lantern. We'd used a lot of experimental stuff in The Last Starfighter and what happened with Ghostbusters really helped make computer graphics a concept that could be used to enhance a story. With the decision to make a sci-fi based superhero movie, computer graphics were seen as the best way to show off the alien world and special effects. It was also a major challenge to get to grips with.”
Hal Jordan – Kevin Costner
Doctor Polaris – Christopher Lambert
Carol Ferris – Kim Basinger
Guardian of the Universe – Voiced by James Earl Jones
Thomas Kalmaku – Wes Studi
Kilowog – Voiced by Dolph Lundgren
Katma Tui – Alyssa Milano
The movie would later go on to become a smash success, fuelling further investment into computer graphics similar to those that were seen in Green Lantern. Industrial Light & Magic were pioneers in the field and continued to have a strong lead against the many other studios that tried to catch up with them throughout the 90's. The decade also saw the rise in special-effects heavy blockbusters by numerous studios with Warner Brothers helping push it forward with its use of superhero films over the decade.
To this end, another DC sci-fi property was decided upon. Martian Manhunter, a character who had yet to be really exposed to mainstream audiences. He was chosen as the special effects budget could be cheaper, while allowing for the kind of action that was present on Green Lantern. Although a relative unknown in popular culture, the movie would help make him into one of DC's bigger names.
The DC Movie Universe continued to go from strength to strength throughout the early 90's. From the special-effects laden Green Lantern to the exploration of humanity present in Martian Manhunter, it seemed as if every movie was trying to be something a little bit different, which was matched by the more action laden Flash movie which was released in 1992. With a different director leading each new superhero film, each one was given its own spin, resulting in the comedy-laden Shazam which was released in 1994.The continued success of these movies would later culminate in 1998's Justice League movie, which brought the DC characters together for a huge crossover event.
With the success of the movies, so went the success of the comics as more and more readers turned into those issues which featured the heroes on the big screen. Hal Jordan would go onto become one of the most popular characters in DC at this time while others, notably Batman, would see their own fame wane somewhat. As a result, the Dark Knight slowly started to be repackaged, eventually leading to his own movie standing out further from the other DC films in 1999, devoid of the fantastic elements that had so marked the output from that universe at the time.
“Of all the things you could have expected in a Captain Marvel movie, Nicolas Cage giving a monologue on the virtues of hot dogs wasn't one of them. Neither was the robot-punching face.”
Billy Batson – Jonathan Taylor Thomas
Captain Marvel – Nicolas Cage
The Wizard Shazam – Christopher Lee
Tawky Tawny – Voiced by Patrick Stewart
Doctor Siavana – Dennis Hopper
A slowed down version of Captain Marvel played by Nicolas Cage screaming and punching a giant fucking robot in the face set to Chariots of Fire is what the internet was made for.
“The kind of things that people wanted to do with Green Lantern would have been impossible only five years before. The Graphics Group had really pushed the envelope with computer based effects thanks to their work on Ghostbusters. Television was seeing a revolution thanks to the effort they had put in. After that, came the time for the wider scope of movies to be used and Warner Brothers was offering us a great chance to take things to their greatest level yet. To better pool our resources, Graphics Group finally merged with Industrial Light & Magic before taking on our first major role in the movies.”
- Extract from an interview with Edwin Catmull, 2017
“It was my experience with special effects which helped me get the role as director for Green Lantern. We'd used a lot of experimental stuff in The Last Starfighter and what happened with Ghostbusters really helped make computer graphics a concept that could be used to enhance a story. With the decision to make a sci-fi based superhero movie, computer graphics were seen as the best way to show off the alien world and special effects. It was also a major challenge to get to grips with.”
- Extract from an interview with Nick Castle, 2003
- Extract from an interview with Peter Guber, 2001
Hal Jordan – Kevin Costner
Doctor Polaris – Christopher Lambert
Carol Ferris – Kim Basinger
Guardian of the Universe – Voiced by James Earl Jones
Thomas Kalmaku – Wes Studi
Kilowog – Voiced by Dolph Lundgren
Katma Tui – Alyssa Milano
- Cast list for the 1989 Green Lantern movie
- Extract from an interview with Kevin Costner, 2008
The movie would later go on to become a smash success, fuelling further investment into computer graphics similar to those that were seen in Green Lantern. Industrial Light & Magic were pioneers in the field and continued to have a strong lead against the many other studios that tried to catch up with them throughout the 90's. The decade also saw the rise in special-effects heavy blockbusters by numerous studios with Warner Brothers helping push it forward with its use of superhero films over the decade.
- Extract from The Rise of Computer Graphics in Film, 2017
- Quote from CivDev, member of Sufficient Velocity forums, 2019
To this end, another DC sci-fi property was decided upon. Martian Manhunter, a character who had yet to be really exposed to mainstream audiences. He was chosen as the special effects budget could be cheaper, while allowing for the kind of action that was present on Green Lantern. Although a relative unknown in popular culture, the movie would help make him into one of DC's bigger names.
- Extract from From Page to Screen: Superheroes in Movies, 2011
- Extract from an interview with Tony Todd, 1999
- Quote from Samwise, member of Freakin' Awesome Network, 2012
The DC Movie Universe continued to go from strength to strength throughout the early 90's. From the special-effects laden Green Lantern to the exploration of humanity present in Martian Manhunter, it seemed as if every movie was trying to be something a little bit different, which was matched by the more action laden Flash movie which was released in 1992. With a different director leading each new superhero film, each one was given its own spin, resulting in the comedy-laden Shazam which was released in 1994.The continued success of these movies would later culminate in 1998's Justice League movie, which brought the DC characters together for a huge crossover event.
With the success of the movies, so went the success of the comics as more and more readers turned into those issues which featured the heroes on the big screen. Hal Jordan would go onto become one of the most popular characters in DC at this time while others, notably Batman, would see their own fame wane somewhat. As a result, the Dark Knight slowly started to be repackaged, eventually leading to his own movie standing out further from the other DC films in 1999, devoid of the fantastic elements that had so marked the output from that universe at the time.
- Extract from A Brief History of DC Comics, 2009
- Extract from an interview with Brad Pitt, 2017
- Extract from a review The Flash from the Boston Globe, July 1989
- Quote from BatLad, member of DC Fan Forums, 2007
“Of all the things you could have expected in a Captain Marvel movie, Nicolas Cage giving a monologue on the virtues of hot dogs wasn't one of them. Neither was the robot-punching face.”
- Comment found on the Meme Foundry website, 2011
- Extract from an interview with Nicolas Cage, 2014
Billy Batson – Jonathan Taylor Thomas
Captain Marvel – Nicolas Cage
The Wizard Shazam – Christopher Lee
Tawky Tawny – Voiced by Patrick Stewart
Doctor Siavana – Dennis Hopper
- Cast list for 1994's Shazam! The Rise of Captain Marvel
- Extract from The Superhero in Movies, 2014
A slowed down version of Captain Marvel played by Nicolas Cage screaming and punching a giant fucking robot in the face set to Chariots of Fire is what the internet was made for.
- Youtube comment, 2012
Tom Hanks isn't no. I haven't decided what to do with him as of yet, but he might pop up in some manner. And this was Brad Pitt's first major role in a movie, cast as the young Barry Allen. Not sure about the Fantastic Four, suppose they could have a bone thrown their way.
Nice to see this updating again.
In terms of Marvel stuff that leans more heavily on genre elements, Ghost Rider seems like a good candidate. He was also bizarrely popular in the OTL 1990s, to the point they shoehorned him into an otherwise straightforward adaptation of that big "Galactus comes to Earth" storyline in the Fantastic Four animated series.
I could see fans wanting an adaptation of Frank Miller's 'The Last Avenger' (OTL folks banged on about Dark Knight Returns for 30-ish years until BvS seemed to satisfy that itch).
In terms of Marvel stuff that leans more heavily on genre elements, Ghost Rider seems like a good candidate. He was also bizarrely popular in the OTL 1990s, to the point they shoehorned him into an otherwise straightforward adaptation of that big "Galactus comes to Earth" storyline in the Fantastic Four animated series.
I could see fans wanting an adaptation of Frank Miller's 'The Last Avenger' (OTL folks banged on about Dark Knight Returns for 30-ish years until BvS seemed to satisfy that itch).
I'm still not entirely sure on how to take Marvel at this juncture, whether to have them financially collapse as they did OTL, or avoid it entirely. I remember doing some quick research and finding that the knock on effects of this timeline may have prevented the collapse of Marvel in the 90's. I'll have to double check really.
Marvel and DC have diverged quite a bit at this point in terms of comic outlook. DC is now the home of big Sci-Fi and Fantasy names with Green Lantern being on a level similar to Batman in OTL thanks to the success of the movies. Marvel, on the other hand, has become much more focused on gritty 'realism' and the Dark Age of comics, thanks to Alan Moore instead being at the BBC, has shifted towards Marvel carrying that flag almost alone.
And you're right, it will be a story many will push for adaptation. Whether or not it'll be any good depends on what happens since Cap still has fans who prefer his lighter stuff and didn't have to go through a 60's TV show marking him down as campy in the public eye.
Although, the Batman writers of the 70's don't get their credit for pulling Batman away from that style choice.
I honestly think you have prevented the Marvel collapse @DAv but it all depends if Marvel have seen off Perlamnn and the dodgy methods he used to take over and then prop up his empire with shell companies and stock options. IF they have avoided that mess then they will likely survive. Well, provided that is that the 90's 'hot artist' 'thing + sales BOOM that lead to Image and the takeover is avoided.
With Marvel 'going dark' earlier I can actually see this happening as the 'grim and gritty' period would just be the normal thing. Without the cross over gimmicks like 'Death of Superman' or 'Knightfall' or 'Clone Saga' to boost comics artificially then comics probably trundles along doing their thing. If the direct market (i.e. selling only to comic book stores instead of news-stands) doesn't take off as strong then the other factors in the Comics Crash/Marvel Bankruptcy is also avoided i.e. Marvel buying a distributor seeking to dominate the market.
Certainly be an interesting world without Marvel going pop.
Perhaps Paramount-Viacom does not go through and Paramount ends up launching that network they where trying to do and ends up buying Marvel Entertainment for the cartoons and movie/TV potential? Perhaps Fox snaps them up as part of their 90's American expansion?
With Marvel 'going dark' earlier I can actually see this happening as the 'grim and gritty' period would just be the normal thing. Without the cross over gimmicks like 'Death of Superman' or 'Knightfall' or 'Clone Saga' to boost comics artificially then comics probably trundles along doing their thing. If the direct market (i.e. selling only to comic book stores instead of news-stands) doesn't take off as strong then the other factors in the Comics Crash/Marvel Bankruptcy is also avoided i.e. Marvel buying a distributor seeking to dominate the market.
Certainly be an interesting world without Marvel going pop.
Perhaps Paramount-Viacom does not go through and Paramount ends up launching that network they where trying to do and ends up buying Marvel Entertainment for the cartoons and movie/TV potential? Perhaps Fox snaps them up as part of their 90's American expansion?
Maybe have Marvel get its edge in via the Sega Mercury? In terms of content, the ITTL ESRB seems like it'd pretty much nix most comic book games. But once there's an avenue for those licenses, DC is at a bit of a disadvantage thanks to its cosmically-flavored bent. There's a reason why there's never been a good Superman video game OTL, after all, but Batman and Spiderman have had several decent ones. Punisher is basically a run-and-gun game, and Wolverine / Moon Knight / various street-level heroes are basically beat-em-ups.
Yup.
Without DKR, Batman is going to be a weirdly different character. A lot of the dickish things he did through the early 2000s seem likely to get toned down ITTL. Without Miller and Moore's influence, the Joker will also be milder. No Oracle, either, since Barbara Gordon never gets shot.
Given the POD, it seems like Dick Grayson probably still ends up as Nightwing long-term. The only reason OTL they didn't de-age him after Crisis (assuming there's even still a Crisis) was that Titans sold big numbers, so Jason Todd (or analogue) is probably still around. Although I could see DC introducing a new Robin in the 1990s or 2000s as a way to try to revitalize the Batman line. Stephanie Brown sorta filled that role in the 1990s, allowing Tim Drake's Robin to do socially relevant storylines about things like teen pregnancy without potentially tarnishing Drake himself.
Hm, Marvel doesn't get as bad it does in OTL's 90's then. I'll be watching SFDebris' series to get a better idea at the time, although the accidental buy out of Marvel is all kinds of hilarious. I can see some potential knock on effects in the 80's right there, in all honesty.
The grim and gritty aspect will almost certainly be more of a Marvel thing, DC turning to their more Sci-Fi properties as a way to show a difference to them. As a result, Batman tends to get under-emphasised during this time period, despite having a role on the Justice League cartoon that came out in the early 90's.
Certainly are some business parts I can look more into. Thanks for the feedback and ideas.
There's a good point, the Mercury will allow stuff like that which would have been largely taboo in the early 90's of this timeline. Could do well from the licensing side of things, although, the limitations of the ERSB has required several game developers to get creative. Maybe something like a Justice League simulator could work?
Oh yeah, Batman's going to still be gritty, for the most part, but he's not going to go overboard in many ways like and Barbara's probably going to have a much different role in things. Hopefully, this means we can avoid the sense that some writers could only make some characters more threatening by giving them triple figure body counts.
Certainly be opening for more characters and what possibilities to do with them, alright. Despite his lack of standing ITTL, Batman's probably got an interesting future ahead of him here.
I will be going more into Star Trek at some point and how the franchise rejuvenates itself in the 90's.