Who would have set up the internet if the Americans hadn't?

[Myrtonos]

The internet, as we know it, is chiefly American, and liberal American for that matter. It was founded in a freedom concious country, and has given those freedoms to people around the world.
In fact, it began Los Angeles, notable for its many freeways, and having less urban transit than almost any other city of similar size, let alone larger, and also the city where the world's first bootleg album was release, and in the same US state where the first McDonald's restaurant was opened.

Who would have set up the internet if the American's didn't do so?

 

[Deleted member 1487]

No one really. If the Soviets had survived longer perhaps they might have, as IIRC they were working on an internet like system for economic data, but it wouldn't have been for the public.

The US was the only country with the investment in such a system and I don't think anyone would have done so without US investment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

 

[Gog (♀)]

No one really. If the Soviets had survived longer perhaps they might have, as IIRC they were working on an internet like system for economic data, but it wouldn't have been for the public.

The US was the only country with the investment in such a system and I don't think anyone would have done so without US investment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

Yeah, I'm going to say the Soviets if they held together and didn't go hardline

 

[Myrtonos]

No one really. If the Soviets had survived longer perhaps they might have, as IIRC they were working on an internet like system for economic data, but it wouldn't have been for the public.

If the States does something that liberal, can the rest of the world ever be far behind?
If the Soviets didn't make their internet available to the public, they would have seen the Americans setting up the internet and making it available to the public as doing something "dumb."

The US was the only country with the investment in such a system and I don't think anyone would have done so without US investment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

I understand that it was mostly California, particularly around Los Angeles, that had this investment.

The digital revolution came so soon after the industrial revolution that it seems to have strengthend emotional connections to the past, at least in my case. Though in mine, web 2.0 coming so soon after web 1.0 has had a bigger impact on my connections to the past.

 

[DrakonFin]

Western Europe would have done it eventually, as a "side product" of European integration.

 

[mrbraingrayson]

China.Just f-----g China.

 

[IanBertram]

Given that a key factor in teh growth of the Internet was the idea of the WWW, which came from CERN, I suspect something would have happened in Europe. The US involvement is a spin off from military developments, so not really a 'liberal' idea and I suspect if the Cold War had stayed cold for longer it wouldn't have been opened up in the same way. We might have ended up with regional nets, with limited interlinking, or a development out of the BB networks (was it FidoNet?)

 

[guinazacity]

France did that mintel thingy, i bet that europe can do it. maybe in cooperation with japan?

 

[Virginian]

Western Europe would have done it eventually, as a "side product" of European integration.

The European integration part is crucial in my mind, in order to make it a more internationally-focused operation than a national-based operation like France's Minitel. Still, I see a very different internet than the (at least once) open web, with everything from games to business having a spot. Mainly because it would probably be set up initially with much more help and direct involvement from the government, who would want to emphasize cultured entertainment and established companies over social networks, start ups, and other things without an apparent useful purpose. (Like a gathering of history nerds talking about what didn't happen but might have )

 

[DrakonFin]

The European integration part is crucial in my mind, in order to make it a more internationally-focused operation than a national-based operation like France's Minitel. Still, I see a very different internet than the (at least once) open web, with everything from games to business having a spot. Mainly because it would probably be set up initially with much more help and direct involvement from the government, who would want to emphasize cultured entertainment and established companies over social networks, start ups, and other things without an apparent useful purpose. (Like a gathering of history nerds talking about what didn't happen but might have )

Well, I tend to think a European internet would be at first a combination of state (military etc) networks and semi-state university networks. In fact the latter would probably be the first to set up some of the cross-border connections. The companies would come later. On balance, I don't think the European version would be necessarily that much different from what we have had IOTL. University-based computer nerds would be leading much of the development, and grown up, they would work for various public and private organizations and concerns participating in the international network, in several different countries. If anything, I could see a pan-European internet to become more heterogenous and "surprising" than the heavily American early internet we had IOTL.

 

[VictorLaszlo]

The European integration part is crucial in my mind, in order to make it a more internationally-focused operation than a national-based operation like France's Minitel. Still, I see a very different internet than the (at least once) open web, with everything from games to business having a spot. Mainly because it would probably be set up initially with much more help and direct involvement from the government, who would want to emphasize cultured entertainment and established companies over social networks, start ups, and other things without an apparent useful purpose. (Like a gathering of history nerds talking about what didn't happen but might have )

The FRG had the BTX (Bildschirm-Text - Screen Text) system which pretty much was a carbon copy of the French Minitel, but failed to gain the level of general popularity Minitel did in France. Dispite that the first West German national ISDN (Integriertes Sprach- und Daten-Netz - Integrated Speech and Data Network, not to be confused with the later international Integrated Services Digital Network ISDN standard - a classical case of a backronym) lines were laid in the mid to late 1980's with this system in mind.

 

[jahenders]

The internet, as I assume you know, evolved out of a DoD project -- Arpanet. It's first 4 nodes were UCLA, Standord, UC Santa Barbara, and University of Utah. Correlating it to characteristics of LA makes little sense.

It would make more sense to correlate to characteristics of DoD or DARPA because they (far more so than the involvement of UCLA) shaped it.

The internet, as we know it, is chiefly American, and liberal American for that matter. It was founded in a freedom concious country, and has given those freedoms to people around the world.
In fact, it began Los Angeles, notable for its many freeways, and having less urban transit than almost any other city of similar size, let alone larger, and also the city where the world's first bootleg album was release, and in the same US state where the first McDonald's restaurant was opened.

Who would have set up the internet if the American's didn't do so?

 

[CaliBoy1990]

The internet, as I assume you know, evolved out of a DoD project -- Arpanet. It's first 4 nodes were UCLA, Standord, UC Santa Barbara, and University of Utah. Correlating it to characteristics of LA makes little sense.

It would make more sense to correlate to characteristics of DoD or DARPA because they (far more so than the involvement of UCLA) shaped it.

The military did have some significant involvement in the Internet, yes, but Arpanet didn't actually come about as a complete thing until 1971-72(although it's roots do go back to at least the late '60s), whereas the Internet dates back to 1969.

 

[Driftless]

The internet, as I assume you know, evolved out of a DoD project -- Arpanet. It's first 4 nodes were UCLA, Standord, UC Santa Barbara, and University of Utah. Correlating it to characteristics of LA makes little sense.

It would make more sense to correlate to characteristics of DoD or DARPA because they (far more so than the involvement of UCLA) shaped it.

My understanding was the origin was military - distributed computing that could survive a massive destruction of US capabilities. That's why the DoD bankrolled the initial development. Originally, wasn't it mainframe to mainframe connections? In a not-so-common swords-into-plowshares shift; other uses for the idea took over, first in the academic world, then with the development of PC's in the 80's the commercial race ramped up - really taking off in the mid-90's

As one of my friends recently cynically observed: most inventions only become really successful if you can either weaponize it or commercialize it. With the Internet - both have been done.

That's why if the US didn't run with the idea early, the Europeans and/or Asian democracies would have. It's a perfect avenue for innovative commerce and sharing of knowledge.

 

[Myrtonos]

Given that a key factor in teh growth of the Internet was the idea of the WWW, which came from CERN, I suspect something would have happened in Europe. The US involvement is a spin off from military developments, so not really a 'liberal' idea and I suspect if the Cold War had stayed cold for longer it wouldn't have been opened up in the same way. We might have ended up with regional nets, with limited interlinking, or a development out of the BB networks (was it FidoNet?)

So the internet actually has millitary origins. When I think of the internet, I think of the world wide web, and I'm sure many others do it. It was founded in the UK, but nevertheless, much of the internet does have a liberal feel to it.

 

[NCW8]

The FRG had the BTX (Bildschirm-Text - Screen Text) system which pretty much was a carbon copy of the French Minitel, but failed to gain the level of general popularity Minitel did in France. Dispite that the first West German national ISDN (Integriertes Sprach- und Daten-Netz - Integrated Speech and Data Network, not to be confused with the later international Integrated Services Digital Network ISDN standard - a classical case of a backronym) lines were laid in the mid to late 1980's with this system in mind.

The UK had a similar system called Prestel launched in 1979. There are also the BBC Ceefax and ITV Oracle teletext services.

However, in the US there were online services such as AOL and Compuserve which were flourishing before the internet was around and were available in the UK in the Eighties. If there were no Internet then these dial-in online services would still be around and would probably become more interconnected - at least for e-mail.


Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Hando]

I have to ask about your definition of "Internet".
Are we talking Internet in the basic form: the TCP/IP protocol. Or the global network, the World Wide Web?

I think that once you have digital phones and a PC in every home a nation-wide even international, or global network is inevitable.

 

[riggerrob]

Internet starting on a kibbutz?

WI the interweb started on a kibbutz. WI a kibbutznic wanted to chat with his cousin, but the PLO had imbedded too many bus bombs, so our favorite kibbutznic just computer code to his cousin.
The Israeli interweb started with telephone lines and Yiddish, but too many a nazis were able to read Yiddish, so they switched to Hebrew and the Hebrew alphabet.
As our favorite kibbutznic grew up, he retained his socialist, collectivist mindset, but got involved in the diamond trade and used his new interweb to communicate with his diamond-trading uncle in Antwerp.
With long-range, instantaneous, secure communications, Jewish jewellers were able monopolize the international trade in gem stones, seriously displacing (Afrikans-speaking) DeBeers from South Africa.

Next question: how does the Hebrew interweb react to blood diamonds smuggled from all the warring states in Africa, Asia, etc. Do they just declare some gem stones "not kosher?"

 

[kasumigenx]

The French..

 

[Fletch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

The Americans, you say?