The recent Hitler's Successor thread has me wondering: whenever it comes down to the biggest nightmare fuel Nazi Germany could turn into people look to Himmler. However they often overlook Heydrich since he died during the war. Basically my question would be who would be the most horrifying leader of Germany between these two.
Who Would Be Worse: Fuhrer Heydrich or Himmler?
- Thread starter Plumber
- Start date
Heydrich is my vote. Himmler just doesn't have the presence and charisma to be more than the vicious toady he was OTL... kinda like the Nicolai Yezhov...
That said the real answer is not which one would be worse individually but to have one (Heydrich) be the public face and the other (Himmler) be the 'guy who gets things done'
That said the real answer is not which one would be worse individually but to have one (Heydrich) be the public face and the other (Himmler) be the 'guy who gets things done'
I think their rivalry would mean that whoever comes out on top means the other isn't going to last long.Heydrich is my vote. Himmler just doesn't have the presence and charisma to be more than the vicious toady he was OTL... kinda like the Nicolai Yezhov...
That said the real answer is not which one would be worse individually but to have one (Heydrich) be the public face and the other (Himmler) be the 'guy who gets things done'
Thank god.
archaeogeek
Banned
Himmler was ruthless, but incompetent. However, at the same time, a Himmler reich would probably have Heydrich as the man behind the man, which would be as bad as if he was the Führer.
Himmler would be worse for the people living in Germany.
Heydrich would be much, much worse for the people outside Germany.
Heydrich would be much, much worse for the people outside Germany.
BlairWitch749
Banned
Any scenario where Heydrich is still alive (ie pre assassination) and Hitler dies is too early for the SS to take over Germany; Goering would easily squash both of them
archaeogeek
Banned
Unless, of course, the POD involves Heydrich's assassination failing. That said, yes.
BlairWitch749
Banned
That brings it at least late in 1942 when Goering's fallout with Himmler was engrained in stone
Neither one of these people could become fuhrer... Goering and or the army would crush them with little difficulty and both had major enemies within the party itself
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but evil or not wasn't Heydrich one of the few important Nazis that was actually good at their job?
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As for him being alive to function as a successor . . . That's easy. Have him try to escape his assassins.
He only suffered the injuries that would eventually claim his life because he insisted on having his driver stop the car so he could personally fight off the assassins. (Which is kind of badass even if he was a kill happy bastard.)
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As for him being alive to function as a successor . . . That's easy. Have him try to escape his assassins.
He only suffered the injuries that would eventually claim his life because he insisted on having his driver stop the car so he could personally fight off the assassins. (Which is kind of badass even if he was a kill happy bastard.)
archaeogeek
Banned
That's part of the problem: his job was being the man who more or less came up with the idea of the holocaust, and squeezing every bit of sweat, blood, and silver out of Bohemia. It wasn't helping the czech economy much, but hell was it a good source of loot for the reich.
The last thing Germany needed was a competent nazi.
From what I heard, Heydrich was implementing the same National Socialist programs in Czechoslovakia that had been done in the Third Reich previously. He administered the country pretty efficiently.
Obviously, the reason why Hitler admired Heydrich was because he was the "ideal Aryan man" in his mind. Blond and tall. Excelled at almost everything he put his mind to. Fencing, boxing, skiing, playing the violin, piloting an airplane, organizing the Holocaust...he did it all.
He was the closest thing to a supervillain in real life.
Obviously, the reason why Hitler admired Heydrich was because he was the "ideal Aryan man" in his mind. Blond and tall. Excelled at almost everything he put his mind to. Fencing, boxing, skiing, playing the violin, piloting an airplane, organizing the Holocaust...he did it all.
He was the closest thing to a supervillain in real life.
Albert Speer or Martin Bormann would actually be my bets for the next Fuhrer.
Heydrich was the 'power behind the throne' type and IMO unlikely to make it right to the top. He also has the disadvantage of being Himmler's subordinate.
Who would be worse of the two, hard to say, Himmler was more ideological (even Hitler thought his ideas a bit crazy) and that could lead to a lot of nightmares for those not fitting with his visions. Heydrich was (relatively) pragmatic (e.g. his carrot and stick tactics in Czechoslovakia) , although a ruthless sociopath.
I don't really know where the idea that Himmler was incompetent comes from. He was certainly well out of his depth when he took control of Army Group Vistula, but that was outside his usual sphere.
Heydrich was the 'power behind the throne' type and IMO unlikely to make it right to the top. He also has the disadvantage of being Himmler's subordinate.
Who would be worse of the two, hard to say, Himmler was more ideological (even Hitler thought his ideas a bit crazy) and that could lead to a lot of nightmares for those not fitting with his visions. Heydrich was (relatively) pragmatic (e.g. his carrot and stick tactics in Czechoslovakia) , although a ruthless sociopath.
I don't really know where the idea that Himmler was incompetent comes from. He was certainly well out of his depth when he took control of Army Group Vistula, but that was outside his usual sphere.
LadyPoland
Banned
Heydrich is my vote. Himmler just doesn't have the presence and charisma to be more than the vicious toady he was OTL... kinda like the Nicolai Yezhov...
That said the real answer is not which one would be worse individually but to have one (Heydrich) be the public face and the other (Himmler) be the 'guy who gets things done'
Agreed, if you saw movie called Conspiracy (made in 2001) starring Kenneth Brannaugh and Stanley Tucci.
Heydrich was very disarming.
Heydrich would probably be the more dangerous in the long run because he wasn't just a blood-crazed lunatic (see his administration of Bohemia and Moravia).
Himmler would do all sorts of evil crazy things and put the regime at risk. More dangerous in the short run because he might try to bomb Britain with poison gas as a sacrifice to Odin or something.
Himmler would do all sorts of evil crazy things and put the regime at risk. More dangerous in the short run because he might try to bomb Britain with poison gas as a sacrifice to Odin or something.
