Who should Constantinople have been given to after WWI?

Who should Constantinople have been given to after WWI?


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I've included all of the nations that I think had a plausible claim on it and/or tried to acquire it.

* Greece - their historic capital, headquarters of their church, largest ethnicity in the city
* Turkey - their formal imperial capital, but lacks religious significance, and not solidly Turkish ethnically
* Bulgaria - close geographically, Orthodox religion, minority presence in the city
* Russia - "Third Rome" philosophy, warm-water port
* Free City/International Zone - what the Allies tried to do in OTL
Is Italy a possible option?
 
Japan, it means they can no longer complain they are not recognised as a great power. Also managing and defending Constantinople ought to keep them too busy to attempt at least some of their other foolishness. Bonus is it should absolutely offend everyone else.

That was my thought when I made my joke post about giving it to the Jews - offend everyone else.
 
I've got it - give it to the Jews to be their homeland and make everybody mad.

Disclaimer - the above is a bad joke and should not be taken as a serious suggestion.

I mean, you could make a half-serious argument about Thessalonica/Salonika/whatever the Actual Correct Name is, given that it was a largely Jewish city for a very, very long time.
 
russia probably would have
they always had good relations to the greeks and stil do if i remember correctly


The Russians wanted Constantinople for themselves.

Iirc they compelled the rejection of a Greek offer to join in an attack on the Dardanelles, precisely because they feared that Greece might get into the city ahead of them.
 
@Koprulu Mustafa Pasha was really waiting for you to see these threads seeing your reaction go and see his other threads about Izmir etc lol.

I can't take these topic seriously. But when I read it it seems that they actually believe Greece has more right on a city with a majority Muslim population. Considering Greek treatment of Muslims or non-Greeks (Bulgarians, Albanians, Jews) between 1821 and 1922 I would say it is a blessing for humanity Greece did not get an inch more after 1919.
 
The only country it will fit in is Turkey, any other and that country becomes turkish majority. Except Russia of course but no one wants them to have it. International zone is probably another balkan war brewing, as Turkey eventually will wanna take it back.
 
I'm really annoyed by these "who should have gotten X" posts. The valid questions for this forum are "Who might plausibly have gotten X, how might they have gotten it, and what would the consequences have been if they got it?" Otherwise we just get into squabbles where everyone favors his or her favorite nation--usually using criteria of "fairness" that are not universally accepted (and that the writer does not always apply consistently, anyway).

And on the subject of Greece getting it, here's an old post of mine (sorry that the link to soc.history.what-if no longer works): "I used to think that maybe if King Alexander hadn't died of that monkey bite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_of_Greece and Venizelos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleftherios_Venizelos had remained prime minister, Greece might have gotten Constantinople. We discussed this at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.history.what-if/92vzIOaL3NY and according to Demetrios Rammos in that thread "Regarding Constantinople there is not the slightest chance of Greece taking it. Among other reasons because Venizelos had no particular interest in taking it. The city alongside the straits become the 'state of Constantinople' supposedly under league auspices."" https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...orus-to-national-border.350403/#post-10593603
 
At the time Istanbul itself and the surrounding region was flooded with Greek and Armenian refugees, which in addition inflated the already substantial Christian minorities to a near, if not clear, plurality (if counted on a Christian-Muslim basis). However even accounting for these minorities, any protocol or treaty in which Greece was awarded Constantinople would almost certainly have included guarantees that the Muslim populations of Thrace and Istanbul would not have been party to the ensuing population transfers, or least Eastern Thrace and Istanbul would be. However the moment the Greek military moves into the area there would be a significant contraction in the Muslim population amongst those who fear retribution for the Greek and Armenian Genocides, and as the Turkish had done in OTL, the Greeks may well have blocked the return of these refugees into their zone.

I ultimately view the Greeks as having been more deserving, but neither Turkey nor Greece would have been particularly kind to their minorities in the city in the short or long run, and any attempt to establish an International or Free City would have been the equivalent of setting down yet another Balkan Powder Keg, setting the scene for yet another Greco-Turkish War.
 
Declare it new Byzantium.

1920: Byzantium works with Greece, France, Italy, and Armenia to carve up Turkey. Northern Turkey annexed.

1921: Byzantine annexes Armenia when Armenians fear Soviet conquest. Soviets back off. Armenians idolize new Emperor.

1935: Bulgaria remilitarizes due to immense fear of Byzantine.

1941: Germany wipes out Bulgaria that tries to stand with Britain, Greece, and Yugoslavia while Byzantine laughs and annexes Greek share of Turkey.

1944: Britain offers Byzantine entire French and British Middle East Mandate and all of Italian Turkey and Libya to get Byzantine’s potent military on the Allies side. Byzantine utilizes Jets, Helicopters, Rockets, and Ak-47 style guns as their fully motorized army blitzes through Europe. Devastated by German occupation and fearing the Soviets, Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Romania, and Yugoslavia welcome Byzantine annexation.

1945: Syria, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Libya, and the rest of Turkey are annexed. Jews understand they will not get their own country, but move to Israel anyway after watching Emperor of Byzantine speak.

1950: Public schools mandatory nation wide and require Greek as language.

1955: All tropical disease in empire eliminated with Byzantine science and widespread public campaign.

1956: Egypt acts out in Suez Crisis, gets annexed by Byzantine as punishment.

1960: Widespread Western immigration to Byzantine, widespread Orthodox and Coptic refuge populations move to Byzantine.

1961: Byzantine King starts affair with Jackie Kennedy.

1965: Wall built to keep Persians out

1973: Byzantine starts oil shock crisis over a soccer game. Hold global economy hostage for years.

1990: Cold War over, Byzantine among the victors.

2000: Byzantine base on moon

2005: In new age of communication and the internet, Byzantine’s superior aesthetics enable them to overtake the US as dominant country in global pop culture and media.

2010: Byzantine sends men to Mars

2019: Byzantine has population fully fluent in Greek and almost all speaking it as language of the home. Byzantine’s King has a 97% approval rating, and is widely regarded as the most respected head of state in the world. GDP per capita is $100,000. The EU, Russia, Persia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Algeria live in constant fear of Byzantine, while secretly wanting to get invaded, captured, and taken to Byzantine. The United States has a treaty with Byzantine allowing Byzantine military access throughout the US as a sign of good faith.

Very realistic timeline. I like it. :openedeyewink:
 
Deserving how? They might as well have been sitting on their hands for the good they did. It was the Western Allies and Arab rebels who did all the heavy lifting.
When considering allocation between the Greek Kingdom and the Ottoman Empire on those grounds exclusively, without considering other options. When considering other options then absolutely a Free City would have been the heavy favorite, but in the long run I have little to no faith that the Free City of Constantinople would not have devolved into ethnic strife between its Muslim and Christian populations, that the Greeks would ultimately march in in an effort to "restore order", and war between the Greeks and the Turkish Republic would result. With foresight, it would be better assigned to one side from the get-go.
 

Scaevola

Banned
When considering allocation between the Greek Kingdom and the Ottoman Empire on those grounds exclusively, without considering other options. When considering other options then absolutely a Free City would have been the heavy favorite, but in the long run I have little to no faith that the Free City of Constantinople would not have devolved into ethnic strife between its Muslim and Christian populations, that the Greeks would ultimately march in in an effort to "restore order", and war between the Greeks and the Turkish Republic would result. With foresight, it would be better assigned to one side from the get-go.
That option is a heavy favorite of yours personally, or of the imperial powers that won WWI? If in your opinion, then why?
 
If there is morality in territorial claims it only really exists in seeking to minimise human suffering, which makes Turkey the only option given they already controlled Istanbul and Turks made up the majority.
The Turks reconstructed the city which had been completely ruined following 1204.

The Ottomans did not create the problem. Constantinople was in ruins following the Fourth Crusade
As an aside the idea that the city lay in ruins for 250 years before the superior Turks came along and fixed it is almost as contemptuously nationalistic as Hierosolyma’s own ranting.
 
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