Who is the least appreciated figure of the 20th Century?

Saphroneth

Banned
Neville Chamberlain?
He's considered a dirty word these days, but he did do some genuinely important things (like initiate rearmament) and the main thing held against him is basically Munich... but that's viewed through the prism of hindsight.
So I think he should be appreciated for his achievements, as well as maligned for his faults.
 
Unless you count African-Americans living under Jim Crow. Goldwater didn't support individual rights as much as he supported state's rights.

You do know that Goldwater was a life member of the NAACP? That he voted for the 24th Amendment?

His opposition to the 1964 Civil Rights bill was to Title II, making discrimination by private businesses a Federal crime - which requires a very serious stretching of the Constitution. And many people (even some liberals) were not happy with the massive extension of government power required to enforce such a measure - a cure potentially far worse than the disease.
 
In New Zealand I believe a good case could be made for the farm Dog, those cheerful little canines, those unacknowledged, often neglected rural based mutts who helped built the economic foundation of this Great Nation.
 
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Warren G. Harding.

Under him, the U.S. recovered handily from the post-WW I recession, which was very serious, and a long period of prosperity ensued.

In foreign policy, the Washington Naval Treaty ended a potentially ruinous "battleship race" with Japan and Britain, and stabilized the balance of naval power for 15 years.

I'm not saying he was a "great" President - but he has been vilified as a corrupt nincompoop. This is IMHO because he died about when the Teapot Dome scandal broke, and he was a convenient scapegoat. And a matter of style: he was the sort of middle class small town midwesterner that "clever" people like H. L. Mencken loved to mock.
 
LBJ not only got civil rights legislation passed in the teeth of opposition that makes Obama's look like cheerleading, but he also created Medicare and Medicaid. Just one of those achievements would've been epic. Not only does the credit for that go to Kennedy, who in reality got sweet FA done during his time in office, but he gets blamed for Vietnam which was Kennedy's baby.

Honorable mention goes to Nixon whose rapprochement with China helped to lift half a billion people out of abject poverty.
LBJ is a good answer to the OP. The title itself made me immediately think of Norman Bourlag.

Nixon, now there's a guy who gets way more credit than he deserves—I had no idea Deng Xiaoping took orders from ex-President Nixon.

You do know that Goldwater was a life member of the NAACP? That he voted for the 24th Amendment?

His opposition to the 1964 Civil Rights bill was to Title II, making discrimination by private businesses a Federal crime - which requires a very serious stretching of the Constitution. And many people (even some liberals) were not happy with the massive extension of government power required to enforce such a measure - a cure potentially far worse than the disease.
Yes. He's a hypocritical segregationist instead of an outright segregationist like Thurmond. Goldwater isn't an idiot—he knew exactly what he was doing when he sold his soul for electoral gain.
Any liberal who supports discrimination isn't a liberal at all. A liberal supports freedom from discrimination. A libertarian supports the freedom to discriminate.
 
Not only does the credit for that go to Kennedy, who in reality got sweet FA done during his time in office, but he gets blamed for Vietnam which was Kennedy's baby.

Honorable mention goes to Nixon whose rapprochement with China helped to lift half a billion people out of abject poverty.

When did the Gulf of Tonkin incident occur and when did escalation begin?

As to China, you're better off crediting Bush II for getting them admitted to the WTO than anything Nixon did.
 

Yuelang

Banned
Richard Nixon, Fransisco Franco, and Kim Il Sung.

Like it or not, those three contribute their way to stability of 20th Century, especially Nixon with his China diplomacy. Franco comes second with providing counterbalance against the communists (otherwise we end up with communist spain), and the Ol' Kim actually stabilize the Korean peninsulla by isolationism of the north, make the South Koreans able to prosper internationally (and not wrecked by further civil wars)
 
Kim Il Sung
Okay, I know that people don't appreciate Kim 1 very much, but what did he do that actually warrants appreciation per se? :confused:

EDIT: Ah, I see. So he allowed South Korea to exist peacefully by his insular policies to his own country. That still doesn't rank him high in the history books, though...
 

Yuelang

Banned
Okay, I know that people don't appreciate Kim 1 very much, but what did he do that actually warrants appreciation per se? :confused:

EDIT: Ah, I see. So he allowed South Korea to exist peacefully by his insular policies to his own country. That still doesn't rank him high in the history books, though...


Yeah, basically only Nixon deserves full respect but the other two are must be respected in their own ways as well.

Without Franco, especially in post WW2 era, Spain might end up genuinely Commie and this could end up in more potent Cold War hot zone against French and British interests.

Without Kim the first and his Juche, I bet South Koreans will always forever locked in contingous low intensity conflicts with their Northren neighbour. In turn utterly wrecking their economy, and in turn cause East Asia as a whole to be significantly less developed. Its a miracle that North Korea end up as comically evil but ultimately harmless hermit dictatorship as now, and their existance is more amusement than real threat.
 
What I meant was basically that he could have been way more aggressive and expansionist, but just because someone could be worse than what they were doesn't necessarily make them good in the first place. A mugger arguably does more damage to others than a pickpocket, but stealing isn't a good thing overall.

I'm also going to lay the blame for creating the system that let his son wreck North Korea even more and is enabling his grandson to continue letting it suffer fully at his feet.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
When did the Gulf of Tonkin incident occur and when did escalation begin?

As to China, you're better off crediting Bush II for getting them admitted to the WTO than anything Nixon did.

Johnson screwed it up, but getting rid of Diem was what made the screwup "imperative". That's on JFK.

Would have never happened if China didn't have relations with the US to begin with. At best.
 

Realpolitik

Banned
LBJ is a good answer to the OP. The title itself made me immediately think of Norman Bourlag.

Nixon, now there's a guy who gets way more credit than he deserves—I had no idea Deng Xiaoping took orders from ex-President Nixon.

Bourlaug was my first answer as well.

Deng's rise to power would not have have taken place without the pro-Western faction gaining traction. Zhou was able to convince Mao to bring him back, and Zhou had Mao's ear because of his success with the USA. Mao was a very mercurial man-what he would have done without him starting to favor a tilt to the West and to Japan in the early 70s, I do not like to think.

That would have never happened without Nixon going to China. Nice try. Sino-US relations were a key part in the internal changes in China, and I like to think in the US too. It's like saying LBJ gets more credit than he deserves for the Civil Rights Act because we don't give the movement enough credit.

Yes. He's a hypocritical segregationist instead of an outright segregationist like Thurmond. Goldwater isn't an idiot—he knew exactly what he was doing when he sold his soul for electoral gain.
Any liberal who supports discrimination isn't a liberal at all. A liberal supports freedom from discrimination. A libertarian supports the freedom to discriminate.
No, he was not a segregationist, no matter how much his message appealed to them. MLK admitted it himself.

EDIT:

I sense the overtones here, and I'm going to be up on this. A liberal is someone with liberal political views. Nothing more or less. I've met plenty who have supported discrimination when it has suited them. If we are ever going to get political discourse to a better state in the USA, the first thing that must go is the assumption that being liberal or conservative somehow makes you a good person.
 
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Without Kim the first and his Juche, I bet South Koreans will always forever locked in contingous low intensity conflicts with their Northren neighbour. In turn utterly wrecking their economy, and in turn cause East Asia as a whole to be significantly less developed. Its a miracle that North Korea end up as comically evil but ultimately harmless hermit dictatorship as now, and their existance is more amusement than real threat.

This is such a wrong statement on multiple levels. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but do I seriously need to go through my time and effort to explain to you how much of a pain Kim caused by initially starting the Korean War then capturing a US ship then planning to kill the President of South Korea then chopping off the head of a US soldier cutting down a tree? All the while keeping DMZ conflict alive and well?
 

Realpolitik

Banned
This is such a wrong statement on multiple levels. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but do I seriously need to go through my time and effort to explain to you how much of a pain Kim caused by initially starting the Korean War then capturing a US ship then planning to kill the President of South Korea then chopping off the head of a US soldier cutting down a tree? All the while keeping DMZ conflict alive and well?

Agreed here. Kim Il Sung is beyond any respect whatsoever.
 
Warren G. Harding.

Under him, the U.S. recovered handily from the post-WW I recession, which was very serious, and a long period of prosperity ensued.

In foreign policy, the Washington Naval Treaty ended a potentially ruinous "battleship race" with Japan and Britain, and stabilized the balance of naval power for 15 years.

I'm not saying he was a "great" President - but he has been vilified as a corrupt nincompoop. This is IMHO because he died about when the Teapot Dome scandal broke, and he was a convenient scapegoat. And a matter of style: he was the sort of middle class small town midwesterner that "clever" people like H. L. Mencken loved to mock.

In the past when I discussed Harding online, it was to defend him against his detractors, and especially against the absurd rating of him by some historians as the worst president in history (which is obvious nonsense when one considers that Pierce and Buchanan made either disunion or a bloody civil war all but inevitable) and to call attention to his real accomplishments.

However, more recently I have had to dissent from what has become a popular theme among conservatives and libertarians--the idea that Harding was an economic genius who cured the 1920-21 depression through wisely applying laissez-faire economics, cutting spending and taxes, and declining to use "interventionist" measures like those used by Hoover and FDR in the Great Depression.

For a critique of this Austrian-school Hardingolatry, see Daniel Kuehn, "A critique of Powell, Woods, and Murphy on the 1920-1921 depression" in *The Review of Austrian Economics*, Volume 24, Number 3, 273-291. To oversimplify, Kuehn's main point is that in order to curb inflation the Federal Reserve steeply raised interest rates before the Depression--and then helped end the Depression by lowering them. Under those circumstances, Kuehn argues, fiscal stimulus would not, even by Keynesian standards, be appropriate. Kuehn also notes that the budget-balancing and spending cuts began with Wilson, not Harding, and that while federal income tax *rates* were cut in 1921-2 this was offset by an expansion of the income subject to taxation at any given rate:


"As Woods (2009) points out, President Harding agreed with the Federal Reserve on the need for 'intelligent and courageous deflation' (Harding 1920). However, the Harding administration's role in the facilitation of price deflation was marginal at best. By the time Harding called for 'intelligent and courageous deflation,' the New York branch of the Federal Reserve had already raised the discount rate to the 7% plateau that would be maintained for the ensuing year. Harding's election in November of 1920 roughly coincided with the halfway point in Strong's high discount rate policy. The trough in industrial production was in March 1921, the month that Harding was inaugurated. Thus, despite his forceful campaign rhetoric, Harding did not play a significant role in the painful, but necessary, deflation of 1920-1921. The emphasis that Powell (2009) and Woods (2009) place on Harding's role in liquidating malinvestments with a contractionary fiscal policy is therefore consistent with Harding's personal outlook on economic policy, but it is historically inaccurate. Instead, the impact of the Harding administration during this time period must be assessed by examining his fiscal policy during the recovery, rather than the initial deflation.

"While active monetary policy seems to have had the most decisive influence on the 1920-1921 deflation, the fiscal policy of the Wilson administration should also be taken into account. Wilson's most important contribution to the deflation was to balance the federal budget. The 3-month moving average of the difference between federal expenditures and federal tax receipts turned and remained positive (indicating a budget surplus) in November 1919. Thus, net federal borrowing ceased 7 months before Harding vowed to 'strike at government borrowing,' 12 months before he was elected to office, and 24 months before Harding passed his first budget.

"Although modern Keynesians place greater emphasis on the federal deficit than on federal spending, an almost identical narrative is provided by spending data; the Wilson administration cut expenditures dramatically before the 1920-1921 depression and before Harding took office. The claim of Woods (2009) that 'instead of 'fiscal stimulus,' Harding cut the government's budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922' obscures the fact that federal spending was falling precipitously over the course of 1919 and 1920. When Harding took office in March of 1921, the Wilson administration had already reduced monthly federal spending to 17% of its war-time high. The bulk of this reduction was achieved by the end of 1919. While it is certainly true that the Harding administration would reduce spending further, the cuts were not as substantial as the cuts made by the Wilson administration immediately prior to the downturn. The use of annual data of Woods (2009) instead of monthly data is misleading because spending was still being winnowed down over the course of the 1920 fiscal year. It gives the false impression that most of the adjustment to federal spending occurred during the depression, when in fact most occurred well before the downturn began...

"Powell (2009) and Woods (2009) suggest that the Harding administration's decision to cut income taxes was instrumental to the recovery which began in 1921 and continued in earnest the following year. This is a misleading account of the Harding administration's tax policy. The Harding administration did cut tax rates for higher income families in 1922 the highest bracket's rates were reduced from 73% to 58%) and implemented an across the board rate reduction in 1923 (from 58% to 43.5% for the highest bracket and from 4% to 3% for the lowest bracket). However, these rate cuts were accompanied by a considerable expansion of the income taxable at any given rate (Internal Revenue Service 2010). For example, while the top bracket's rate was reduced by 15% points from 1921 to 1922 in Harding's Revenue Act of 1921, the income taxable at that rate was expanded from all income over $1,000,000 to all income over $200,000. Therefore, while the tax rates were lowered, the amount of income that these tax rates were assessed against was considerably increased by the Harding administration. The net effect was that from 1921 to 1922, the period of the initial Harding tax 'cut,' the percent of individual income collected as revenue through the income tax actually increased from 3.67% to 3.95% (Internal Revenue Service 2010). While this expansion of the tax burden under Harding is not particularly large, it belies claims by Powell (2009) about a tax cut during the economic recovery. After 1922, further rate cuts assessed on the same income brackets did result in a decline in the tax burden from 1922 to 1923. The early Harding administration saw increasing income tax burdens for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the restored economic growth, which pushed more families into higher tax brackets. However, the statutory expansion of these tax brackets in Harding's Revenue Act of 1921 represented a deliberate, though modest, tax increase in the interest of maintaining a balanced federal budget...[The] brief decline in the tax burden that occurred in 1923 came too late to be considered as a factor in the recovery from the 1920-1921 downturn.." http://www.springerlink.com/content/5683j4v650187261/fulltext.html
 
Fransisco Franco

Franco was a butcher who staged an illegal military coup, with British assistance, against the legally elected government because Spanish right-wingers were pissed that the Second Republic even existed. During and after the war Franco's purges racked up anywhere between 200,000 and 400,000 dead as part of an organized campaign to enact limpieza (cleansing) of all elements in Spanish society deemed to be leftist, subversive, or in any way a threat to Franco's junta.

What makes this worse is the fears of communist takeover were massively overblown; the Spanish Communist Party did not become a serious force in Spain until after the Civil War started because they were the main pipeline of arms and resources from the Soviet Union. Before the Civil War they were a tiny voice on the far left with no power and influence especially compared to the far more robust anarcho-syndicalist movement as represented by the CNT-FAI. Even in their case the revolution they staged was not until after their warnings of the impending coup were ignored and the Army of Africa was on the march. No Francoist coup means it is highly unlikely you'd get a Communist Spain in any sense of the word.

Franco deserves more scorn than he gets.
 
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