hey, all. im exploring some possibilities for my Anglo-American Rivalry TL and was wondering what everyone thought about this supposition: with a post-Napoleonic POD (whichever one makes it work), what country other than Italy itself could unify the states that became OTL Italy with most realistically, and what would be the later effects of this both on Italian history and the rest of the world? for example, would/could this butterfly away Italy's fascist period, thus greatly affecting European history in the 20th century?
Who else could unify *Italy?
- Thread starter oshron
- Start date
Oh, the Pope, for one.
Maybe the Two Sicilies? They would have to industralize a bit quick, but they have the potential.
Maybe the Two Sicilies? They would have to industralize a bit quick, but they have the potential.
A confederation of Italian Republics would be a nice alternative to the Savoys or the Bourbons.
a unification into a larger papal state as a theocracy occurred to me as well, but i wanted to explore other possibilities, too 
one that occurred to me was a possible revived venetian republic, but im honestly not sure how viable that is in the 19th century (especially considering that--i think--venice was part of austria-hungary at the time)
one that occurred to me was a possible revived venetian republic, but im honestly not sure how viable that is in the 19th century (especially considering that--i think--venice was part of austria-hungary at the time)a unification into a larger papal state as a theocracy occurred to me as well, but i wanted to explore other possibilities, too
1848 helps. Have Charles Albert not co-opt the Italian nationalist movement and thus you have a bunch of Republics declaring independence.
What other states would want to? Any foreign power uniting Italy from the outside is uniting it as their dominion, not an independent country, most likely.
Odd suddent idea - to fight the old spanish influence on the south and screw the old opponant, Two Siciles and all, the portugeses jump in the mess. HOW, and if it is even possible or worthwhile to do, well..
That makes a lot of sense. The Federation of Italy, founded by the Republics of Rome, Florence, Lombardy, and Venice, then expands with the Republics of Naples, Sicily, Sardinia, and Piedmont.
no, i meant among the italian states
its probably my fault, i didnt want to say "italy" or "italian" five times in the same fucking sentence, too repetitive its kinda so i'll know what to call it, like if its not formed by a pre-existing and smaller italian state, would it even be called italy as opposed to, say, Greater Florence, or the Holy Roman Republic, or Venice/Venetia?no, i meant among the italian states
Probably, if it identifies itself with being "All the peninsula". Greater Florence or whatever is going to be less appealing to anyone outside Florence than that.
Wolfpaw
Banned
Federazione Italiana does sound niceAgain, Italian Federation rolls of the tongue fairly easily.
A less regionalist Italy would butterfly away the Mafia too - or change it to be very unrecognizable from OTL.
Wolfpaw
Banned
Or just hasten its exodus to the United States. So long as the Center doesn't care about Sicilian peasants, the Mafia will still be there.
wolf_brother
Banned
Though the obvious answer is 1848, for something wholly different I'd suggest looking into making the Revolutions of 1830 successful. The most obvious POD is to have Francis IV of Modena go along with Ciro Menotti's plans, which he was initially inclined to do (hey, 'King of Italy' does have a nice ring to it), perhaps a-la how the Savoyards co-opted the revolutionary movement in 1848. Alternately one could remove Francis IV altogether with a POD further back and switch the destinies of Francis IV and his younger brother Archduke Ferdinand Karl Joseph of Austria-Este, who would likely be more inclined towards co-operation (he attempted to raise a Polish counter-revolution in the Duchy of Warsaw against Napoléon's rule).
Even with the House of Este though you could have a different Italian unification. Either independently of, or in conjuncture with, the above you'd need the Carbonari peasant armies and popular uprisings throughout the Papal States to be successful, most likely by having them capture Rome. This is easier done by using the above to have Ferdinand in charge of things, and thus he doesn't bring in Austrian troops to support the Papal forces and the revolutionaries capture the metropole. However even without Ferdinand you could still accomplish a revolutionary Rome. Gregory XVI's election to the Papacy was highly unusual; you could avoid having such a reactionary in the Quirinal Palace by having the papabile Giacomo Giustiniani take the throne instead, or letting either the liberal Emmanuele de Gregorio or his archrival Bartolomeo Pacca break their deadlock at the 1830 Papal Conclave and flip enough votes to be elected Pope.
Even with the House of Este though you could have a different Italian unification. Either independently of, or in conjuncture with, the above you'd need the Carbonari peasant armies and popular uprisings throughout the Papal States to be successful, most likely by having them capture Rome. This is easier done by using the above to have Ferdinand in charge of things, and thus he doesn't bring in Austrian troops to support the Papal forces and the revolutionaries capture the metropole. However even without Ferdinand you could still accomplish a revolutionary Rome. Gregory XVI's election to the Papacy was highly unusual; you could avoid having such a reactionary in the Quirinal Palace by having the papabile Giacomo Giustiniani take the throne instead, or letting either the liberal Emmanuele de Gregorio or his archrival Bartolomeo Pacca break their deadlock at the 1830 Papal Conclave and flip enough votes to be elected Pope.