Who Else Could Have Been The First US President?

LoyalistColonial, Hamilton was close to Washington but would Franklin have considered him as number two?
Absolutely, positively not. That ticket would be pretty much impossible, but I suggested so just for the sake of a possibly interesting presidency, considering the two's opposing views on the President's power.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
So let's assume Ben Franklin becomes the first POTUS and has a Southerner as his VP (perhaps John Rutledge, but his pro-slavery stance might be too much for Franklin, but then again, any Southerner will be pro-slavery...). Not only does Franklin die within a year, but he spends that time making the presidency a by-and-large ceremonial position.

So the question is, who becomes the most powerful member of the government? The VP in his capacity as head of the Senate (John Adams tried to make the position as powerful as he could, IIRC, though largely failed due to Constitutional limitations...and his own unpopularity).

Or perhaps the Speaker of the House? Might we see Party Chairmen (when the positions evolve, probably earlier ITTL) becoming the preeminent political power-brokers?
 
Aaaaarrrgh!

I am the only one on this thread who:
A) Is a naturally born American citizen?
B)Passed American History?
C)Passed American Civics?
D)Read biographies of Hamilton AND Franklin?
E)Studied the Federalist Papers?
F)Studied the Constitutional Convention of 1787?
Judging by what I'm reading, yes. OK, Hamilton, born in the West Indies. Eligible? Not just no but HELL no. The provision specifically was meant to prevent any person who by birth could conceivably have divided loyalties. Also, Britain was still considered THE major strategic threat to the new republic. One of the more insidious weapons at Britain's disposal was honors. Lord North seriously discussed giving honors to Washington if he would turn his coat. It was believed foreign-born citizens would be much more likely to respond to such inducements. Do you all know who was the driving force behind the section barring foreign born citizens from the presidency? HAMILTON! The man had the political sensitivities of Dick Cheney AND was a lot less popular.:rolleyes: Seriously. He couldn't have gotten elected dogcatcher much less President and he was more aware of it than anyone. Today he would be a Chief-of-Staff type, NOT an elected official.

Franklin? This was a man who was just hanging on long enough until a sufficient number of states had ratified the US Constitution to make us a nation. He was bitterly disappointed that Pennsylvania's legislature failed to pass approval first. He was in agony from gout and internal stones (I don't remember for certain, but I think kidney). Pain so crippling that not only could he not serve he couldn't even run. I am an American who actually understands the difference between running for office in a republican system and standing for office in a parliamentary system. I can't see Congress "selecting Franklin as Prime Minister", much less him asking from his home for the 13 states to elect him.

Whose left? Really only Adams and Jefferson. Remember political parties in 1787 really didn't exist yet. Only the Federalists. The Anti-Federalists were less a "party" than a protest movement. The Democrats wouldn't really be born until Adam's Alien and Sedition Acts united them. Jefferson and Adams OTL were in France and Britain respectively at the time but if it comes down to a choice for Chief Executive? Jefferson just didn't have Adams' drive, not yet anyway. I could see Jefferson begging off serving in Adams' Administration but I don't see him running in 1788. 1792? Oh yeah! Anything to get Adams out. It was Adams' actions as President that sundered their close friendship for many years. Remember, Adams was screaming for independence louder and longer in Congress than anyone else by far. In a world where Washington was felled by fever, say, in 1787? It's unlikely despite his being a New Englander that anyone else could stop him.
 
Although not as emphatically as Mr. Usetron, I would like to make a few points.
1. Without GW there may not have been a U.S. or an office of President. The presence and stature of GW were absolutley necessary for a successful Convention, a strong, independently elected Chief Executive and the ratification of the Constitution.
2. So to have a first "President" other than GW you need a POD after ratification but before the first election.
3. This is not impossible. The late 18th century was a dangerous place. GW could fall from his horse, die of an infection or simply have a stroke before the Electors meet. The nation goes into deep mourning but the show must go on.
4. I do not see BF gaining very many votes. As pointed out above, he was old and he was sick. His role at the Convention was mostly limited to being carried there in a sedan chair, making a few comments and then blessing the end product. Please also keep in mind that BF was not universally loved and admired. A significant number (probably a minority, but still not insignificant) of his fellow Founding Brothers thought him lazy, immoral and both personally and financially corrupt. His disputes with Congress while he was in France were well known and Adams had developed a deep and abiding hatred of him from the time they had both been in Europe. Franklin did not hate Adams, he just thought he was crazy.
5. So if GW dies before the election I think the Electors (or the House if there is no winner in the Electoral College) choose. . . John Adams. Yes, he was not popular, but he was generally respected. He had been the work horse of the Continental Congress, the man who got the Dutch loan, a key player in the negotiations which ended the ARW and the first U.S. Minister to GB. In betweeen jobs in Europe he had written the Mass. Constitution and written a well received book defending American state constitutions.
6. Also as pointed out above, if the first President is from the North, the first VP will probably be from the South. It could be any one of a number of Pinckneys (I can never keep them straight) or Patrick Henry of Virginia but Henry had just spent a year leading the anti-Federalists so I do not see him being chosen to head to NY to help start up the new government so my predicition is. . . Thomas Jefferson of Virginia. Well liked by his fellow Continental Congressman, doing a fine job over in France, the Electors will ignore his disastrous term as Governor of Virginia.
7. My predictions for the Adams cabinet:
a. Secretary of State: John Jay of New York. Jay was finishing up his work as Secretary of Foreign Affairws for the Confederation, he and Adams had worked well together in Europe so he is the natural choice.
b. Secretary of the Treasury. There are only two real candidates: Robert Morris and Alexander Hamilton. In OTL Morris turned it down and recommended Hamilton so I see this happening in TTL. Admas does not know Hamilton well enough yet to hate him so he follows the Morris recommendation and the good things GW has written about AH.
c. Secretary of War. Admas chooses his fellow Bay Stater Henry Knox unless Knox turns it down and the butterflies have kept Nathaniel Greene alive.
d. Attorney General. Has to be Southerner to maintain some sort of balance so it could be Randolph as in OTL or some other Southern friend of Adams from the Continental Congress.
8. My predictions for the Adams Adminsitration? Not nearly as successful as GW, leading to even earlier divisons along party and geographical lines. Proving once again that GW really was the indispensible man of the Early Republic.

Respectfully submitted,
AH
 
Although not as emphatically as Mr. Usetron, I would like to make a few points.
1. Without GW there may not have been a U.S. or an office of President. The presence and stature of GW were absolutley necessary for a successful Convention, a strong, independently elected Chief Executive and the ratification of the Constitution.
2. So to have a first "President" other than GW you need a POD after ratification but before the first election.
3. This is not impossible. The late 18th century was a dangerous place. GW could fall from his horse, die of an infection or simply have a stroke before the Electors meet. The nation goes into deep mourning but the show must go on.
4. I do not see BF gaining very many votes. As pointed out above, he was old and he was sick. His role at the Convention was mostly limited to being carried there in a sedan chair, making a few comments and then blessing the end product. Please also keep in mind that BF was not universally loved and admired. A significant number (probably a minority, but still not insignificant) of his fellow Founding Brothers thought him lazy, immoral and both personally and financially corrupt. His disputes with Congress while he was in France were well known and Adams had developed a deep and abiding hatred of him from the time they had both been in Europe. Franklin did not hate Adams, he just thought he was crazy.
5. So if GW dies before the election I think the Electors (or the House if there is no winner in the Electoral College) choose. . . John Adams. Yes, he was not popular, but he was generally respected. He had been the work horse of the Continental Congress, the man who got the Dutch loan, a key player in the negotiations which ended the ARW and the first U.S. Minister to GB. In betweeen jobs in Europe he had written the Mass. Constitution and written a well received book defending American state constitutions.
6. Also as pointed out above, if the first President is from the North, the first VP will probably be from the South. It could be any one of a number of Pinckneys (I can never keep them straight) or Patrick Henry of Virginia but Henry had just spent a year leading the anti-Federalists so I do not see him being chosen to head to NY to help start up the new government so my predicition is. . . Thomas Jefferson of Virginia. Well liked by his fellow Continental Congressman, doing a fine job over in France, the Electors will ignore his disastrous term as Governor of Virginia.
7. My predictions for the Adams cabinet:
a. Secretary of State: John Jay of New York. Jay was finishing up his work as Secretary of Foreign Affairws for the Confederation, he and Adams had worked well together in Europe so he is the natural choice.
b. Secretary of the Treasury. There are only two real candidates: Robert Morris and Alexander Hamilton. In OTL Morris turned it down and recommended Hamilton so I see this happening in TTL. Admas does not know Hamilton well enough yet to hate him so he follows the Morris recommendation and the good things GW has written about AH.
c. Secretary of War. Admas chooses his fellow Bay Stater Henry Knox unless Knox turns it down and the butterflies have kept Nathaniel Greene alive.
d. Attorney General. Has to be Southerner to maintain some sort of balance so it could be Randolph as in OTL or some other Southern friend of Adams from the Continental Congress.
8. My predictions for the Adams Adminsitration? Not nearly as successful as GW, leading to even earlier divisons along party and geographical lines. Proving once again that GW really was the indispensible man of the Early Republic.

Respectfully submitted,
AH

thanks for Clearing that up. Thanks Usertron, but I too am an American Citizen who I believe meets your 5 point requirement for posting:D. Basically these last two guys nailed it. I do propose that John Jay would probably get the position with a Pinckney probably Charles C. Pinkney and not Thomas.

As for Hamilton, He was born on NEVIS not St. NEVIS (doesn't exist) and then moved to IIRC St. Kitts and then definitly to New York. As for the residency clause, it was needed for the first 7-8 (I can't remember Van Burens b-day) Presidents. None of them were USA citizens but they were all citizens of the Confederation, including Hamilton, who was a citizebn of New York. One last thing, Hamilton probably wouldn't be elected President unless he learned to keep his mouth shut.

Franklin no way, He had Gout and Kidney Stones. Read Ben Franklin an American Life (good bio of the man). The governorship of Pennsylvania was basically a figurehead position and Ben Franklin held it because he was the most popular guy in the state. While Franklin would have been a good Pres. He wasn't Washington and we needed Washington. The man had so much Gravitas and respect and he had it in boatloads more than anyone else possibly up for the job.

Morgan: your history teacher was a moron and should lose his license, Aaron Burr died of natural causes in 1832(IIRC the date) of an apparent heart attack.
 
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