Who Else Besides Leo X?

IIRC, it was bribery from the Medici banks that won the election for Giovanni de Medici as Pope Leo X. Leo was pretty much the worst person to be pope at that time (although this might be more apparent in hindsight), given the whole Martin Luther crisis during his pontificate.

Were there any other frontrunners in the 1513 election? Who? Could they (had they had the funds or Giovanni/Leo was deemed too young) have been elected?

P.S.: my idea is that Cesare Borgia survives his OTL death in 1507 by fleeing to France instead of Spain in 1503 (IDK why he didn't do that OTL) and manages to survive at least until the League of Cambrai War is over. Julius II and the French king have yet another issue to bicker about (Julius' dislike of the Borgias etc) when they fall out.
 
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According to wiki, in the first round, Cardinal Serra got the most votes, followed by Grosso della Rovere, Accolte, del Monte and Bakocz. Medici only got one vote. Plus, he was ill at the time (suffering from a fistula), so if he were to be too ill to attend the conclave or the operation isn't a success (i.e. he dies), who would they rally behind?

They seem shocked at Serra getting as many votes as he did - can't say I blame them, he was a Spaniard and a close associate of the Borgias (tutor to two of Alexander's grandsons). After Alexander VI and Calixtus III they must've sworn never again would a Spanish pope darken the halls of the vatican.

Del Monte is an Italian, but he was likewise very close to the Borgias, Accolti is almost 60. While Grosso della Rovere and del Monte are closer to 50. Serra I can't find a birth year for, but I'm guessing he was reasonably long in the tooth since he died 4 years later.

Bakacz is my personal favourite, since he seems like a Hungarian Cardinal Wolsey to me. But I don't think he'd have enough support as a foreigner.
 
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Bakacz would have made a very interesting character.

Not only does a Hungarian Pope make the Church appear less unapologetically Italian, dashing the anti-Papal sentiments of many pro-Luther (but not necessarily theologically Lutheran) Germanic nobles, but also as outsider he is less invested in the status quo in terms of the Curia’s admin that was only beginning to be broken and reshaped in the 1530’s.
Additionally as a non-Italian Bakacz would have been infinitely less interested in the progress of the Italian wars and giving two fingers to the French.

What info is there about Bakacz as an individual? Did he hold tighter morals than Leo? Was he interested at all in conciliarism or was he a conservative Papist. Did he show any interest in Christian humanism or was he more like Paul IV?

A really meaty and interesting possibility for a POD.
 
Bakacz would have made a very interesting character.

Not only does a Hungarian Pope make the Church appear less unapologetically Italian, dashing the anti-Papal sentiments of many pro-Luther (but not necessarily theologically Lutheran) Germanic nobles, but also as outsider he is less invested in the status quo in terms of the Curia’s admin that was only beginning to be broken and reshaped in the 1530’s.
Additionally as a non-Italian Bakacz would have been infinitely less interested in the progress of the Italian wars and giving two fingers to the French.

What info is there about Bakacz as an individual? Did he hold tighter morals than Leo? Was he interested at all in conciliarism or was he a conservative Papist. Did he show any interest in Christian humanism or was he more like Paul IV?

A really meaty and interesting possibility for a POD.

Bakacz was the one to keep Hungary OUT of the War of Cambrai AND he attempted to maintain friendly relations between Hungary and Venice. I started a WI on him being elected some time back but it never picked up steam.
 
The reason as to why I'm thinking the chances of a foreign/non-Italian pope being elected is the case in point between Leo X and Clement VII - Adrian VI. He was hated by the Italian clergy as a humorless icicle (not to mention his closeness to Karl V got some backs up).

The surprise at Serra garnering as many votes as he did seems to me AGAIN because of the prospect of a foreign pope.
 
I'd wondered about Georges d'Amboise being elected in 1503 myself. If Cesare Borgia had been in good health, he might have been able to keep the Spanish cardinals on board. Of course, I suppose it might just cause the other cardinals to fight back even harder and elect della Rovere.
 
I'd wondered about Georges d'Amboise being elected in 1503 myself. If Cesare Borgia had been in good health, he might have been able to keep the Spanish cardinals on board. Of course, I suppose it might just cause the other cardinals to fight back even harder and elect della Rovere.

The question would then arise if Borgia can get the Spanish and French (and maybe one or two of the more Borgia friendly Italians (like Farnese), just so it doesn't look like a foreign pope elected by foreigners) cardinals to back d'Amboise, would there be enough cardinals willing to support della Rovere that he can still be elected pope?
 
the Council of Pisa(-Milano), known as «Conciliabulum», which at its last session (21 April 1512) had declared deposed Julius II and proclaimed Pope the "rebel" Cardinal Bernardino López de Carvajal, who took the name of Martin VI.

Would've made for fun times if the Conclave of 1513 simply ratified López de Carvajal's election. The cardinal himself (nor several of those who elected him) wasn't at the conclave (they were excommunicated by Juls) but as a way of avoiding a second schism, the cardinals in Rome decide, well, we've got a pope-in-waiting already...
 
the cardinals in Rome decide, well, we've got a pope-in-waiting already...

AHAHAHAHAHAH
No, first of all it was not a practice contemplated by the Church, secondly at the death of Julius II this "schism" was now a ridiculous thing, reduced to only three cardinals fleeing to Lyon, of whom Louis XII wanted to free himself because he no longer needed them to threaten the dead Pope.
A schism without at least a national state to support it (ie without the bishops who with the support of their sovereign's weapons recognize the schismatic pope as their pope) can not subsist.
Instead it is interesting to remember how Carvajal was a good man, a worthy prelate and a man of the Church: although perhaps too imaginative, he could have been elected in a subsequent conclave, shortly before his death, thus becoming the first anti-pope who, being redeemed, was later elected Pope.
But I imagine that the Holy Spirit would have made a good laugh. x'Dx'Dx'D
 
Would've made for fun times if the Conclave of 1513 simply ratified López de Carvajal's election. The cardinal himself (nor several of those who elected him) wasn't at the conclave (they were excommunicated by Juls) but as a way of avoiding a second schism, the cardinals in Rome decide, well, we've got a pope-in-waiting already...

Very unlikely. Carvajal has about as much chance of being elected as Martin Luther at that point (the excommunicated cardinals weren't allowed into the conclave, and his excommunication was only reversed by Leo X). If we can postpone the Council of Pisa a bit (shouldn't be too difficult with the POD you're suggesting) so that it either doesn't happen in 1512, or simply have the cardinals disregard il papa guerriero's wishes about not allowing the cardinals into the conclave. That way Carvajal gets into the conclave, but not sure if that'll be enough to let him win it.

But IIRC, both excommunicated Louis XII's representative at the Lateran Council as well as Emperor Maximilian's denounced the Council of Pisa as well as the election of "Martin VI". Which means that Carvajal would've lost his backing anyway. But still, Carvajal is an interesting candidate for pope.

Strangely enough, all the cardinals mentioned thus far - Carvajal, Bakocz and Ciocchi Del Monte were all political animals (or at least had political experiences abroad as legate or diplomat). Accolti was the guy who drew up the famous bull Exsurge Domine against Luther. Riario might have been papabile but he was as corrupt as the day was long, and there had been murmurings about him being as unsuited for a cardinal's hat. Can only imagine what his papacy would look like.

The question would then arise if Borgia can get the Spanish and French (and maybe one or two of the more Borgia friendly Italians (like Farnese), just so it doesn't look like a foreign pope elected by foreigners) cardinals to back d'Amboise, would there be enough cardinals willing to support della Rovere that he can still be elected pope?

The absence of the French cardinals made a massive difference in the outcome. Since, in theory, had Briçonnet, de Luxembourg, Prie, d'Albret and Castelnau been present (or allowed to attend), we could see a pope elected that is of a different temperament. Take note, I don't think we'd see a French pope - the Italians would be very cognisant that it might simply be a ploy to put the papal monkey on Louis XII's string - but their attendance could be a few more votes for someone to avoid it becoming a question of who's making better offers of bribery.

Oh, and about why didn't Cesare flee to France instead of Spain, he went to Naples after Pius III died, where he was arrested and taken to Spain. I'm not sure if he was expecting to get a ship to France from there? Would've made more sense to go north - after all, he was lord of Piombino, I'm sure he could've got a ship from there to take him to Marseilles
 
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