Whittle Gets Wider Support for Jet Engines in 1936

As a relative newbie I hope you will forgive me if this deviation from OTL has already been explored elsewhere - I have tried various search strings with no luck.

Whittle's early experiments with jet propulsion (1929-1936) were promising but inconclusive and he lost effective financing from the RAF. This meant that even with the impetus of war the first successful jet turbine flight did not take place until May 1941.

May I postulate a scenario in which Churchill hears of the struggling, impecunious pioneer and takes him under his wing? With the support of C's great friend Sir Max Beaverbrook and his equally air minded son, Max jr, more than enough money is raised to fund Power Jets Ltd. The first prototype of the Gloster Whittle E28/39 flies in October 1937 and is an immediate success. The RAF is pressurised by Churchill with grudging support from still-appeaser Beaverbrook to order 8 aircraft. These are so successful not only in flight performance but also a stable gun platform which can mount both 2 x 20 mm cannon and 4 x Browning .303 machine guns that a further 50 aircraft, now named the Gloster Meteor are ordered, the first machines coming into squadron service in June 1939.

The question is, ladies and gentlemen, what impact will the arrival of this new weapon have on succeeding events. Given that Germany is probably too far down the line with its preparations to abandon the invasion of Poland, what impact will the Meteors have in 1939-40? Indeed, will the Luftwaffe still be committed in support of Sealion? If so, what will happen? Will the losses likely to be incurred have an impact of air support for Barbarossa?

What would be the impact of the early adoption of jet propulsion for a heavy bomber?
 
This means that Meteor becomes first jet fighter to see action. Which result in European theater of the war ending in 1944.
 
Depends on the secrecy; IIRC, the Germans did not realise the 'clunky' 'Chain Home' RADAR towers fed a very, very efficient plotting and control system...

Given limited range plus fear of capture, so NOT deployed to 'Battle of France', squadrons of RAF jets howling past those 109s dog-fighting Hurris & Spits to maul 'Battle of Britain' bomber formations would be a terrible, terrible shock. Can you suggest spicy German term for such horrors ?? Goering would have apoplexy, or eat a bullet...

The Blitz would probably go ahead, as those RAF jets would be scant use as night-fighters...
 
Considering obstacles like metallurgy, I doubt jet fighters could be brought forwrd more than a year or two compared with OTL.
 
The Blitz would probably go ahead, as those RAF jets would be scant use as night-fighters...

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No reason jets can't be night fighters.

Aa for financial backers, Lady Houston had some cash to burn, and Lord Rothermere was certainly a wealthy potential backer, since he gave the RAF an airplane faster than anything they had. Churchill was very friendly with the press. However, money doesn't necessarily lead to advances is design and metallurgy, nor does it necessarily put vital personnel on the case, such as Stanley Hooker and the benefits of Rolls Royce. Gloster Aircraft was not in the same situation to be pegged for jet production, nor did it have the same chief engineer, nor was the E28/39 a suitable fighter in any way. I would prefer the DH team, with an early Jack Frost, but that's just me.
 
Depends on the secrecy; IIRC, the Germans did not realise the 'clunky' 'Chain Home' RADAR towers fed a very, very efficient plotting and control system...

Given limited range plus fear of capture, so NOT deployed to 'Battle of France', squadrons of RAF jets howling past those 109s dog-fighting Hurris & Spits to maul 'Battle of Britain' bomber formations would be a terrible, terrible shock. Can you suggest spicy German term for such horrors ?? Goering would have apoplexy, or eat a bullet...

The Blitz would probably go ahead, as those RAF jets would be scant use as night-fighters...
More likely Round boy Goering would have ODed ,he had a serious drug addiction at the time
 
Considering obstacles like metallurgy, I doubt jet fighters could be brought forwrd more than a year or two compared with OTL.

If the money is there the alloy questions may at least in part be answered. Engineering advancement often follows closely behind need and investment. Aside from that with all the other details tested out & developed 'ten hour' engines will be less of a show stopper, & become hundred hour engines in a couple more years.

Also, if jet powered fast bombers can evade the Me109 & FLAK defense to consistently break the Meause River bridges 12-15 May then engines good for only 4-5 missions would be ok given the operational gain.
 
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Considering obstacles like metallurgy, I doubt jet fighters could be brought forwrd more than a year or two compared with OTL.

Hi temp alloys were already common in the USA, driven by GE's '20-30s turbocharger work. It wasn't a secret, so Whittle could have gotten those alloys.

Stellite 21 was just as good as Nimonic 80 the UK started using in 1942, and far better that the stainless steel Whittle used at the start
 
Hi temp alloys were already common in the USA, driven by GE's '20-30s turbocharger work. It wasn't a secret, so Whittle could have gotten those alloys.

Stellite 21 was just as good as Nimonic 80 the UK started using in 1942, and far better that the stainless steel Whittle used at the start

GE's work on turbo-chargers was considered proprietary, and GE engineers didn't necessarily have any information on Stellite 21, although Sanford Moss certainly did, according to an anecdote. Do you have an exact date for first use of the super-alloy? The only information I can find is that it came into common usage in late 1941 when the casting process was developed.
 
Thanks all for these erudite contributions. My primary interest is in creating butterflies in the progress of the war and in geopolitics so could we, big ask, assume that DH/Gloster and RR set up a subsidiary to work on the new aircraft and that limitations on endurance and engine wear are largely solved by 1938? Then back to the original questions.
1. Impact on air defence of UK
2. Impact on Phone War (is such there still is)
3. Longer term impact in air war if heavies can be developed
4. Could this technology advance change the war elsewhere - e.g. Barbarossa?
 
1. Impact on air defence of UK
2. Impact on Phone War (is such there still is)
3. Longer term impact in air war if heavies can be developed
4. Could this technology advance change the war elsewhere - e.g. Barbarossa?
1. There will be production, training and deployment gaps/delays and Spitfires will still be important in 1940 as a consequence, but improved efficiency by at least 40%. Luftwaffe will just not be able to sustain a Battle of Britain.
2. Negligible. The production, training and deployment gaps I mention above plus, as Nik said above, fuel range and fear of capture would have meant no deployment to France.
3. Issues of range and fuel consumption would probably delay this until around 1943 but would reduce attrition rates on bomber crews. No payload advantages over Lancasters or Wellingtons in first generation jet bombers. Do the same job more quickly in and out at a higher altitude.
4. There will be a sea change in Luftwaffe attitudes to Ernst Heinkel and Willy Messerschmidt and their jet fighters will be pushed forward without OTL delays and perception failures. By 1942/3 situation should have more or less equalised. By 1941 though RAF in Far East will be putting up Spitfires not Brewster Buffaloes against IJAF. Germans had air superiority against the Soviets already at the start of Barbarossa so wouldn't affect initial stages. They could have maintained it longer though with jets which might slow down the Soviet steamroller of 1943-45.
 
Considering obstacles like metallurgy, I doubt jet fighters could be brought forwrd more than a year or two compared with OTL.
Depends. IIRC with some of them the discoveries came out of other research, others it was Whittle and Power Jets going around asking that prompted people. It's been an age since I read an in-depth history so I couldn't say which was which.


The Blitz would probably go ahead, as those RAF jets would be scant use as night-fighters...
For combating the Blitz more efficiently it doesn't really matter whether the aircraft are propeller or jet powered, the main task would have to be improving the development and introduction of airborne interception radar.
 
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