White Ship does not sink

samcster94

Banned
The White Ship, which was carrying much of the English royal family, sank in 1120, and it lead to chaos for much of the middle of the century. What if the ship didn't sink(and Henry I's son was alive in TTL)???
 
Without Henry Ii to marry Eleanor of Aquitaine and push into Toulouse then maybe France wouldn't be threatened enough by England to attack English holdings in France for a little while longer. There's a start.
 
Huge huge butterflies and knockons.
A surviving William Adelin means his marriage to Matilda of Anjou continues and his sister Matilda doesn't marry Geoffrey of Anjou as a result. I suspect she'll marry Thierry of Flanders to strengthen ties there.
If William survives to be king then absolutely no Anarchy with all its consequences that lead to the HYW, War of the Roses, etc.
 
Without Henry Ii to marry Eleanor of Aquitaine and push into Toulouse then maybe France wouldn't be threatened enough by England to attack English holdings in France for a little while longer. There's a start.
Well in this ATL Henry II will be the double first cousin of his OTL analogue and can easily have the same kind of character (he will the indisputed heir of England and Normandy and the nephew of the ruler of Anjou)

Huge huge butterflies and knockons.
A surviving William Adelin means his marriage to Matilda of Anjou continues and his sister Matilda doesn't marry Geoffrey of Anjou as a result. I suspect she'll marry Thierry of Flanders to strengthen ties there.
If William survives to be king then absolutely no Anarchy with all its consequences that lead to the HYW, War of the Roses, etc.

No Anarchy for sure, but a wedding between Eleanor of Aquitaine and ATL Henry II is not impossible and in any case Normandy was more than enough for being a source of constant conflict between England and France
 
Huge huge butterflies and knockons.
A surviving William Adelin means his marriage to Matilda of Anjou continues and his sister Matilda doesn't marry Geoffrey of Anjou as a result. I suspect she'll marry Thierry of Flanders to strengthen ties there.
If William survives to be king then absolutely no Anarchy with all its consequences that lead to the HYW, War of the Roses, etc.

I did a mini-TL on this once. The knock-ons are indeed huge.

First, I doubt Empress Matilda remarries, since she was pretty comfortably ensconced as a widow in Germany and would have little interest in coming back to France. Nor does Henry particularly need her to do so. Other than that, agree with the marriages here.

So, if William marries Matilda of Anjou, does Geoffrey marry? If so, who? I do think, notwithstanding the dynastic ties, Anjou and Normandy remain rivals, rather than being joined in one empire. This is actually a huge butterfly, as during the reigns of Henry II's kids, Anjou was the least rebellious region.

Then, of course, there's Stephen of Blois. He's clearly ambitious, but also noted for occasionally displaying too much generosity and not reigning in his nobles as king. So I don't see him just sitting in Blois as his brother's spare heir, but England is out. Maybe he follows his late father's footsteps and goes crusading?

Finally, if William has a rival, it's his cousin William Cleto, son of one of Henry I's brothers. Frankly, a successful civil war on his part is even likely than OTL, but William Adelin's enemies might try to use him in some scheme or other.

All in all, interesting possibilities.
 
First, I doubt Empress Matilda remarries, since she was pretty comfortably ensconced as a widow in Germany and would have little interest in coming back to France. Nor does Henry particularly need her to do so. Other than that, agree with the marriages here.
If she does come back it's probably after her father dies and at the request of her brother.

So, if William marries Matilda of Anjou, does Geoffrey marry? If so, who? I do think, notwithstanding the dynastic ties, Anjou and Normandy remain rivals, rather than being joined in one empire. This is actually a huge butterfly, as during the reigns of Henry II's kids, Anjou was the least rebellious region.
Not sure of Geoffrey's possibilities here but after 1146 Bertha of Brittany is free.

Then, of course, there's Stephen of Blois. He's clearly ambitious, but also noted for occasionally displaying too much generosity and not reigning in his nobles as king. So I don't see him just sitting in Blois as his brother's spare heir, but England is out. Maybe he follows his late father's footsteps and goes crusading?
Stephen was favoured by Henry who promoted his marriage to the Countess of Boulogne. That's still possible here.

Finally, if William has a rival, it's his cousin William Cleto, son of one of Henry I's brothers. Frankly, a successful civil war on his part is even likely than OTL, but William Adelin's enemies might try to use him in some scheme or other.
Clito will definitely agitate more than OTL since he's not a possible heir and still claims Normandy. Flanders might be a bigger flashpoint and lead to active war between Louis and Henry.
 
Stephen OTL wedding to Matilda, Countess of Boulogne is still likely to happen because is useful for everyone involved
 
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