White Dominions Without World War I?

Witch0Winter

Witch0Winter

Banned
Something that I've been pondering lately, what would be the likely fate of the white dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa) without World War I? In OTL, World War I allowed the men of the white dominions to form their own national identities at places such as Gallipoli and Vimy Ridge, showing great courage and bravery that would help solidify an identity for the dominions that was separate from the metropole.

Up to the point of World War I, so I've been told, most of the people of the white dominions considered themselves British more or less, and thus connected to the home country, but after the war became more disconnected, leading to the situation of today where, though they still have ties to the UK, the former white dominions have their own unique identities and run t heir countries separately from the UK.

So, if World War I is somehow avoided or takes place on a smaller scale, what could be the fate of the white dominions?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Without the First World War, I can see Britain and the White Dominions moving much more easily towards Imperial Federation.
 
Emperor Norton I

Emperor Norton I

Anaxagoras said:
Without the First World War, I can see Britain and the White Dominions moving much more easily towards Imperial Federation.
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The problem is the inherent problems of a colonial empire. The dominions and colonies form an independent identity over time, while the homeland has too much of an ego to put itself on par as an equal to its overseas holdings. The latter is why the idea of a Federation died in the OTL, and the former and the latter are the problems it has to overcome.
 

David T

ToixStory said:
Something that I've been pondering lately, what would be the likely fate of the white dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa) without World War I? In OTL, World War I allowed the men of the white dominions to form their own national identities at places such as Gallipoli and Vimy Ridge, showing great courage and bravery that would help solidify an identity for the dominions that was separate from the metropole.

Up to the point of World War I, so I've been told, most of the people of the white dominions considered themselves British more or less, and thus connected to the home country, but after the war became more disconnected, leading to the situation of today where, though they still have ties to the UK, the former white dominions have their own unique identities and run t heir countries separately from the UK.

So, if World War I is somehow avoided or takes place on a smaller scale, what could be the fate of the white dominions?
Click to expand...

Wikipedia gives the impression that in Australia at least the War actually led to *stronger* attachment to the British Crown: "The republican movement dwindled further during and after World War I. Emotionally, patriotic support for the war effort went hand in hand with a renewal of loyalty to the monarchy. The Bulletin abandoned republicanism and became a conservative, Empire loyalist paper. The Returned and Services League formed in 1916 and became an important bastion of monarchist sentiment..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_Australia
 
Witch0Winter

Witch0Winter

Banned
Anaxagoras said:
Without the First World War, I can see Britain and the White Dominions moving much more easily towards Imperial Federation.
Click to expand...
Eh, I don't really agree with that, especially not with Canada, which I'm more knowledgeable on. While WWI certainly distanced Canada and the British crown, the nation had already started to develop its own distinct national identity. Not to mention that it's not hard to see that being independent and trading freely over the border with the USA would be more profitable than trading overseas.

I was more asking the question as to how it would affect independence when it comes and what role Britain will play in the future of her white dominions.
 

Deleted member 6086

The Dominions were slowly drifting away from direct British control even before the war. Canada and Australia had formed their own navies (and Quebecer opposition to the Empire was fierce) and it was agreed at the 1911 Imperial Conference that Britain would consult the Dominions when negotiating treaties that applied to them. Adding to that was the fact that both Canada and Australia were experiencing rapid population growth, which meant that their economic and political clout relative to Britain was increasing all the time, and Canada was bound to be driven towards stronger ties with its huge southern neighbour rather than to a metropole in relative economic decline, even considering the emotional links with its 'mother country'. Even absent any world wars I see the Dominions slowly moving towards Commonwealth rather than Empire just as in OTL. And I don't see an Imperial Federation as very likely, it's alien to British political culture and to what the Empire had always been seen as - Britain and its appendages, headquartered in Westminster.
 
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sparky42

MattII said:
For 15 years. I was think of a permanent Dominion/Commonwealth member state.
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I think that would depend entirely on domestic affairs, would their be a push for the Statute of Westminster? There's also what India does and when they make a move as to what Ireland might do.
 
Julius Vogel

Julius Vogel

I really do not know what would happen, WW1 was so traumatic that it is hard to know how the lack would effect development.

National identity would continue to grow though, whilst the effects of WW1 seem to have pushed it further, it was already happening. Remember, the South African War had already some effect with the provision of national contingents to support the Imperial armies.
 

DG Valdron

I can only speak for Canada. WWI was a defining event for Canadian culture. You can pretty much go to any village and town, and there's a cenotaph for the war dead.

Canada's population at the time was maybe 8 million. I believe that the Canadian force was over 600,000, of whom 450,000 served in Europe. Essentially, seven per cent of the total population. More than that, though, it was the universality of the experience. It reached every city and town, it touched every province. There wasn't a hamlet that didn't have a man going to war.

That 7% consisted of combat age males, 18 to 36. When you factor out women, the children, the elderly, you're looking at as much as 1/3 of the combat age males going. That's massive. And you're looking at the reality that pretty much everyone else in Canada was at most one or two places degrees of separation removed from someone who had went to war.

61,000 Canadians were killed, 171,000 wounded. That's literally half of all the soldiers who went to Europe.

It was basically the First Universal Canadian experience. And it was a pretty sour one. There was a lot of war propaganda, but the people that came home told stories of a pointless hellhole. Canadian troops lives were thrown away by British generals, we were peons and cannon fodder, and that also came home. There was a lot of post war revulsion. I think it was the beginning of the end.

It was politically divisive for Canada, given the brutal conflict between Quebec and English Canada over conscription.

What it came down to was having the downsides of being a colony rubbed into Canadian noses in the most unpleasant and universal way possible.
 
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