groundhogday666
Banned
Su-24 Fencer, Su-27 and MiG-31 are not happy !
Now, the F-1 on the Saturn V... that would be useful to that N-1 boondoggle !
Which western aircraft designs would you copy ?
- Thread starter Monk78
- Start date
Su-24 Fencer, Su-27 and MiG-31 are not happy !
Now, the F-1 on the Saturn V... that would be useful to that N-1 boondoggle !
Well they might be happier with an exact copy of the F111F. The F111F was also in service years before the SU24 so the Soviets would presumably have their F111F copy in service years before the SU24 entered service.
We have to bear in mind the soviet computer tech was so far behind that an F-16 would not be of much use to them
I like the idea of Mirage F1 but its essentially a Mig-23ML equivalent
I don't recall mentioning the F14. An exact copy of the F15A would presumably have been in service years before the SU27. Presumably having access to all of the electronics and other systems of the F15A would also have been helpful to the Soviets.
I was sort of thinking that the Soviets some how get all needed information to mass produce the aircraft they decide to copy ? If they don't get all of the information to mass produce them, then in my view at least having single fully working examples of the three air craft I mentioned as soon as they were fully operational in the west would still be of value to the Soviets. (If the Soviets can't actually manufacture the aircraft in question then I might drop the F111 from my list. A fully operational B52H, or maybe a B1B or perhaps an EA6 or EF111 would probably be helpful to the Soviets to have a working copy of although in the case of the B52H they would need to choose when they acquired a working copy as the aircraft was upgraded from time to time. )
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sorry I should have clarified again
All they get is one aircraft flown to a soviet airbase by a NATO/US ally pilot and that is it
Kind of like how they copied the B-29 just the aircraft and its crew
No worries that makes sense. Thanks
In that case getting one of the final CF105 prototypes makes a certain amount of sense. In the context of this thread, the more or less complete destruction of the prototypes after the program was cancelled sort of makes sense.
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We are copying western aircraft. From pitot tube to the jet exhausts or drag chute (whatever is further aft). Includes everything.
F1 is much better aircraft than MiG-23. Better electronics and missiles, has fixed geometry wing, lighter, smaller, cheaper to make and maintain.
I wonder how much of the F1 could have been copied by the Soviets. For a design like the F1 that was widely exported IOTL I also wonder how much information they Soviets were able to obtain about it IOTL.
Soviet systems were well behind western ones, and the only Soviet Vstol aircraft to actually see service was the mediocre Yak 38 Forger.
IMO, the Mirage F1 didn't sported any ground-breaking technology (unlike, for example, Viggen), but it was more of making the most with technology of the day. Exactly the path Soviets needed to follow when looking for heir to the MiG-21, but strayed with MiG-23.
Compared with what Soviets had in late 1960s/early 1970s, the Cyrano radar might be it's most advanced 'piece'.
I suppose the optimal Soviet approach might be to choose advanced western air craft that are likely to have advanced features that the Soviets would actually be able to gain useful information from and or copy and or place into mass production if they actually got their hands on working examples and presumably air crew who were prepared to be somewhat helpful in explaining things. Choosing designs that were not widely exported might also make sense as presumably there would be more opportunities to obtain information about air craft that were widely exported. The engines, air frame and flight controls of the CF105 might be something the Soviets would want to get their hands on.
McPherson
Banned
Three?
a. Canberra because it was so good at what it did.
b. Mirage III or just about any Dassault fighter/bomber aircraft of the era. (Well designed weapon SYSTEMS, emphasis on SYSTEMS.)
c. B-52. The Russians never had had a "great" strategic bomber. Even the "Bear" , a formidable platform in its own right, falls far short of the BUFF.
Canberra (could fly higher than all other aircraft - served for decades - NASA still using theirs)
F4 (Big dog in the 60s and 70s)
F15 (The undisputed King - what every fighter in service since the Eagles introduction - before the latest Gen of Aircraft - secretly wishes it was - I believe that it has a 100+ to 0 Air to Air Kill ratio verses Migs and Mirage)
Okay, so looking into the actual gaps in the Soviet lineup...
F-106 Delta Dagger: The Soviets lacked a modern interceptor during the late 1950s and early 1960s until the Su-15 entered service. The F-106 is a major step up from the Su-9 and Su-11, particularly in the sensor department.
F-111: The plane the Su-24 is trying to be. The speed difference is just a matter of the variable geometry ramps, but the F-111 also had vastly superior payload and range despite being the same size.
Sea Harrier: No Yak-38. Enough said.
F-106 Delta Dagger: The Soviets lacked a modern interceptor during the late 1950s and early 1960s until the Su-15 entered service. The F-106 is a major step up from the Su-9 and Su-11, particularly in the sensor department.
F-111: The plane the Su-24 is trying to be. The speed difference is just a matter of the variable geometry ramps, but the F-111 also had vastly superior payload and range despite being the same size.
Sea Harrier: No Yak-38. Enough said.
I agree but depends on when they get it, lets say if they get a mirage f1 in 1973 before full scale production of mig-23M starts then its extremely valuable
but if its by 1982 when they have 1800+ mig-23M in service then it adds little value