Which one of these TL ideas sound interesting?

[Jimbrock]

Hi, everyone!

I was thinking about making a TL, and since one of my favourite areas is Modern(ish) Europe, I came up with some ideas, mostly revolving around early (by 25 or by 400 years ) Italian Unification. I mentioned one of them in a thread but it didn't get much replies. So I decided to try my luck with the great People's Vote and see if I should actually write one.

1. Slightly different Congress of Vienna makes Italian Unification easier, cleaning up the central italian states and a civil war in piedmont creates a pro-Union less autocratic Piedmont by 1820. Details, together with a preview and a rough draft for a first part is here:https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=125628

2. Lombard League, after chasing the HRE out of Italy for good in 1250, instead of dissolving becomes a defacto country (similar to the HRE itself). The money flooding in from the Renaissance and now that theyre all working together enables them to conquer Tuscany and Papal States when the Pope leaves in the fourteenth century. To cut a long story short, it develops into a Kingdom, buys Sardinia, Sicily and Malta (yea, it would have the money). Sponsors Colombus in 1492 and by 1500 unites Italy.
The bulk of the action will take place French Revolution onwards, though (Italian Napoleon ).
Original idea found on the Italian Colonies in America thread here:https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=126488

3. I doubt this would actually turn out good but a li'l interesting patriotic idea. A Malta Wank! Dethroning the unpopular Knights in 1798 when Napoleon arrives, the Maltese nobles set up a 'Greater Malta' (woot, a few islands and old Knight's Tunis) and when Nappy starts turning nasty captures him when he stops over in Malta returning from wherever and so has a say in the Congress (not internationally, duh) cos they have Napoleon. I might combine this with the first one if I find out because it could be very interesting.

If anyone has comments, critisicm, suggestions, ideas for any other TL I could make, and anything I forgot about, PLEASE let me know. I DONT want to end up bumping this twice in a row like last thread .

Jim

 

[Iori]

Lombard league, if for no toher reason then it we'd have another country to confuse the name of (Lombard - Lumbar).

 

[Meepy]

Malta Wank all the way! It has to be done.

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Just to see how influential tiny Malta can be realistically, I would vote for this one; and I don't vote a lot on these.

 

[Jimbrock]

I swear, when I saw the poll results I laughed.
Given the hillariously large support for the Malta Wank, I'll try put something short together. I could combine it with option 1 to make a more interesting and international TL, but if anything later.

So here's a rough, sketchy preview.

When Napoleon arrived in Malta in 1798 and asked to 'get fresh water and supplies', everyone knew exactly what he wanted to do. The Knights of St. John were unwilling to fight other Catholics and some of the French knights even welcomed Napoleon. The Nobles and the people of Malta and Gozo, though, knew an opportunity when they saw one. An opportunity to overthrow the unpopular Knights for good. (PS- Towards the end of their stay in Malta, the Knights of Malta became lazy and without purpose, and were extremely unpopular)

Napoleon intended to turn his guns against the Knights when he docked, but the rebellious Maltese chasing the remaining loyal knights (a lot defected to the Maltese side) into the fortress cities of Valletta and Cottonera (similar to the Maltese Rebellion against the French OTL). Napoleon had a meeting with the nobles and exploited the situation very well. He would help the Maltese form their own state in return for keeping some troops in the Islands.

In a few weeks, the Grand Duchy of Malta was formed. It consisted of Malta, Gozo, Comino (and the other li'l islands), Pantelleria, and Lampedusa. A series of liberal reforms were granted and the power of the Church reduced. A new, bright era of independence began in the Maltese Islands, in 1789.

If I continue this, I'll figure out who the Grand Duke will be .

What do you think?

Jim

 

[Alex Richards]

How about French General Claude-Henri Belgrand de Vaubrois (later surrendered to British in OTL)

 

[Jimbrock]

How about French General Claude-Henri Belgrand de Vaubrois (later surrendered to British in OTL)

I was... errr... kinda gonna make him... Maltese?

The French is this scenario will not immediately occupy Malta, only keep a naval base, but later when Napoleon starts looting and harassing the people there will be a revolt in which Nappy himself is captured.

But your idea of a foreign duke opens many other possibilities...hmmm...

Jim

 

[Alex Richards]

It would have to be a foreign duke, the Maltese never had much in the way of politically important (or even economically inportant) families under the Knights. So any local grand duke would be raised above his peers and probably quite unpopular.

 

[Jimbrock]

It would have to be a foreign duke, the Maltese never had much in the way of politically important (or even economically inportant) families under the Knights. So any local grand duke would be raised above his peers and probably quite unpopular.

I understand. I was going to make him an invented person hailing from the family that used to rule the place I live but you are very right.

Isn't there some popular Italo-Maltese Count somewhere that could evenutally lead Malta into a unified italy? This could fit in VERY well with proposal 1. In fact, I'll probably merge them later.

Jim

 

[Alex Richards]

The basic issue is that the Knights ruled Malta from 1530-1798. The last count of Malta was kicked out in 1425, and he dosn't make any further impression on history.

There are a few noble families in 1789, but they have really been enobled by now defunct foreign kingdoms, and I personally think that Napoleon would have wanted a loyal French general on the throne of Malta. This could lead to the early addition of Sicily, and maybe even Naples.

 

[Jimbrock]

There were Maltese Noble families in 1798, in fact it was they who organized the Rebellion against the French. They were mostly descended from Italian or Spanish stock but by now were very Maltese. I am not refering to the foreign Counts who were so unpopular their families were frequently chased into a Fort. The Counts themselves were actually chased out of the country. The last one was Gonsalvo Monroy, a Spaniard.

Napoleon does not control the islands yet, he will later, but for now can only keep a small naval base there.

Jim

 

[Alex Richards]

How about this as a starting point:

1789: Napoleon makes General Claude-Henri Belgrand de Vaubrois first Grand Duke of Malta.

1795: Napoleon adds Sicily (butterfly in conquest) and Calabria, Basilicata and southern Apulia (the heel and toe of Italy) to the Grand Duchy.

1798: Napoleon is captured and Claude-Henri dethroned in a popular revolt led by [insert name here] who becomes the Second Grand Duke by popular consent. Napoleon is later freed but only after recognising the new Grand Duke and confirming Maltese independance from France.

1798-1814 (or whenever Napoleonic wars end): Maltese independance assured by Brtain until the end of the wars. The congress of Vienna confirms Maltese posessions. 2 weeks later the population of the rump neapolitan state declare their intent to join our great neigbours to the south and the Grand Duke is crowned King of Naples and Sicily (as with the Austrian Archdukes, the title Grand Duke of Malta is the first written).

 

[Jimbrock]

How about this as a starting point:

1789: Napoleon makes General Claude-Henri Belgrand de Vaubrois first Grand Duke of Malta.

1795: Napoleon adds Sicily (butterfly in conquest) and Calabria, Basilicata and southern Apulia (the heel and toe of Italy) to the Grand Duchy.

1798: Napoleon is captured and Claude-Henri dethroned in a popular revolt led by [insert name here] who becomes the Second Grand Duke by popular consent. Napoleon is later freed but only after recognising the new Grand Duke and confirming Maltese independance from France.

1798-1814 (or whenever Napoleonic wars end): Maltese independance assured by Brtain until the end of the wars. The congress of Vienna confirms Maltese posessions. 2 weeks later the population of the rump neapolitan state declare their intent to join our great neigbours to the south and the Grand Duke is crowned King of Naples and Sicily (as with the Austrian Archdukes, the title Grand Duke of Malta is the first written).

You should really think about writing a TL yourself about that. It is a really good idea. I never imagined SUCH a wanked out Malta (it would be hell controlling all that from Malta though). One small problem, OTL Napoleon arrived in Malta in 1798 not '89 and his rule lasted a few months.
We could possibly butterfly that.
Is Apulia OTL Puglia, by any chance?

Anyway, it's clear the poll succeeded so I'll stop and work on some of these ideas, unless you want to use the idea yourself, Alex.

Jim