Two thing in common that these adrimals have:
- They were remarkable admirals
- They all died in battle
Which one of these heroes is the best admiral?
- Thread starter GameBawesome
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Samsara123
Banned
In my opinion Yi was, despite repeated opposition and his countrymen’s encompetance he still fought on and he fought smart too
Once Admiral Togo had this to say to the question: "It may be proper to compare me with Nelson, but not with Korea’s Yi Sun-sin, for he has no equal."
On the one hand, Yi Sun-sin only appears to have fought the Japanese, who do not appear to have exactly been at the top of their naval game at that time whereas Nelson fought and beat pretty much everyone who mattered at his time. On the other, taking on 133 ships with only 13 and winning is pretty badass however you look at it. I'd say its too close to call unfortunately...
RodentRevolution
Banned
Now this is a thorny one
De Ruyter and Nelson both managed to build up a professional following of officers who continued their operational legacy after their death. Yi and De Ruyter had to put up with governments that were lukewarm to them at best while Nelson enjoyed considerable support even after he had been at his most embarrassing in Naples. I mean battles the bits that people remember but there is more to being an Admiral than just those. Still it is good to see Yi getting a look in.
De Ruyter and Nelson both managed to build up a professional following of officers who continued their operational legacy after their death. Yi and De Ruyter had to put up with governments that were lukewarm to them at best while Nelson enjoyed considerable support even after he had been at his most embarrassing in Naples. I mean battles the bits that people remember but there is more to being an Admiral than just those. Still it is good to see Yi getting a look in.
Problem is, that he didn’t die in battle, which is a major theme for those three Admirals on the list
RightHoJeeves
Banned
Yi had no prior naval background and led an underequipped and outnumbered fleet to victory without losing any ships. How many admirals have ever done such a thing?
Nelson comes close. He never lost a battle at sea nor a ship in battle at sea (there were some engagements with shore defences that ended more messily, including with Nelson losing various body parts). He was often outnumbered (33 British ships at Trafalgar vs. 41 Franco-Spanish) though not as dramatically as Yi. He did though have the benefit of being trained by the Royal Navy from 12 years old.
Nelson was a super admiral and a very good to brilliant tactician, but he fought forces that were inferior to his own.
The British navy at the time was the only one that could afford to sail all year around, and thus always had trimmed ships and crews.
Ships of the line needed several weeks at sea to trim the ships and men into an effective unit, and squadrons of ships needed even more time to learn to sail in formation, know each ship's individual traits, speed, ability to manouvre and so on.
That was why the Royal Navy maintained a close blockade of the French ports - because it denied the French the ability to trim their ships and men. Napoloenic France could build ships, drill gunners and recruit sailors, but they could not create a fleet. The Battle of Trafalgar was a great victroy, and the greatness of the victory was compounded by Nelson's innovative tactics. But he would not have been able to use those tactics had the Franco-Spanish navy actually been properly trimmed and trained together.
The Royal Navy was superior to whetever the French and Spanish could bring to the battlefield, and the result would have been similar (although probably with a bit fewer ships lost for the French and Spaniards) had Nelson used traditional tactics. Had the French and Spaniards been trimmed, the result might have looked a bit more like Chesapeae Bay than Trafalgar (although probably with the British being the victors).
Nelson commanded a great squadron created through the institution of the Royal Navy. Yi created his navy from scratch. That makes him the greater admiral, in my opinion.
The British navy at the time was the only one that could afford to sail all year around, and thus always had trimmed ships and crews.
Ships of the line needed several weeks at sea to trim the ships and men into an effective unit, and squadrons of ships needed even more time to learn to sail in formation, know each ship's individual traits, speed, ability to manouvre and so on.
That was why the Royal Navy maintained a close blockade of the French ports - because it denied the French the ability to trim their ships and men. Napoloenic France could build ships, drill gunners and recruit sailors, but they could not create a fleet. The Battle of Trafalgar was a great victroy, and the greatness of the victory was compounded by Nelson's innovative tactics. But he would not have been able to use those tactics had the Franco-Spanish navy actually been properly trimmed and trained together.
The Royal Navy was superior to whetever the French and Spanish could bring to the battlefield, and the result would have been similar (although probably with a bit fewer ships lost for the French and Spaniards) had Nelson used traditional tactics. Had the French and Spaniards been trimmed, the result might have looked a bit more like Chesapeae Bay than Trafalgar (although probably with the British being the victors).
Nelson commanded a great squadron created through the institution of the Royal Navy. Yi created his navy from scratch. That makes him the greater admiral, in my opinion.
Samsara123
Banned
If I heard this right part of his original squadron were actually unarmed merchant ships and fishing boats too
General-at-Sea Robert Blake.
Who also built the largest Navy in the world, and literally wrote The Book for it.
Nelson did not consider himself to be Blake's equal!
(He also died of old wounds on active service, so he probably counts?)