Which maritime republic had the best chance?

Which Republic had the best chance?

  • Genoa

    Votes: 9 7.9%
  • Venice

    Votes: 95 83.3%
  • Amalfi

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Ragusa

    Votes: 8 7.0%
  • Pisa

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    114
I vote Ragusa, Venice lies close to big neighbours and are likely to be crushed at some point. Ragusa on the other hand lies perfectly to just be forgotten much as Montenegro did.

Being under Ottoman suzerainty helped it survive

Had there been different outcomes to the European wars, its possible Ragusa could have ended up with Dalmatia attached to it, maybe even the Septinsular Republic

Fun to play with!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
This is the kind of thing I was looking for. I knew there'd been talk of the Venetians revamping the old Nile-Red Sea Canal, which would give them a massive leg up in the Oriental trade, and also encourage them to develop the kind of Atlantic-type vessels needed to maintain a strong presence outside the Med. Sea. I like the POD. Temporary anti-wank followed by increased focus on the real revenue stream...

Unfortunately IOTL Venice developed the galleass (which performed very well at Lepanto as a gunnery platform, but was handicapped by its own weight, and had to be towed by normal galleys) rather than follow the Portuguese example (nao). The choice of having galleons was made just in the 1630s, too late for entering the India game (and in any case an independent Egypt disappeared in 1515 - no more chances of a very early canal, unless there is a very different relation with the Ottomans). It would be interesting to see what Venice plus Egypt might do: assume the Visconti state survives (which does not necessarily means a big Milan wank: say Gian Galeazzo lives another 15 years, and can consolidate his domains as well as groom his sons before dieing), so that Venice is not suckered into a terrafirma expansion. In TTL Venice stay concentrated on the east, even if it does not change too much the outcome of the war with the Ottomans (maybe they end up holding a few more fortresses in Morea, I don't think that Negroponte can be saved, much less Thessalonika, which is the first to go). However when Constantinople falls, Venice starts more in earnest to look for alternative routes to the east: contacts with the Safavids for sure, but the largest investment is made in opening up friendly relations with Egypt, and having a go at the restoration of the Ptolemaic channel. Vasco de Gama arrives in India circumnavigating Africa in the last years of the 15th century: if the Egyptian shift happens by 1460 (in the wake of the fall of Constantinople), by 1480-1485 the canal might have been re-opened and the first Venetian ships (galleys) should be docking in India in the early 1480s. It will not take much to realise that a sailing ship (caravel, in these years) is a better proposition, nor it would be difficult to procure some ships from Portugal or Spain. The carrack also (nao) should be almost developed, even if not completely and I believe it will be next step. More loading capacity, better speed, better gunnery platform. When Vasco de Gama reaches India he will find the Venetians already in place.

Sooner or later the Ottomans will come sniffing at Egypt, maybe even earlier than OTL if the canal is such a commercial bonanza. IOTL the Mameluks did not put up a big show; ITTL Egypt will be richer, and much more open to European influences (better artillery). There will be a strong allied fleet covering the coast of Outremer, with Cyprus as its lynchpin. The roads to reach Egypt from Anatolia are not too many, and most of the time they follow the coast. It might end up in a very different way.
 
Is an Egyptian canal going to be viable? The Red Sea doesn't really have winds or a strong current, no?

According to our Wiki friend:
Current: In the Red Sea detailed current data is lacking, partially because they are weak and variable both spatially and temporally. Temporal and spatial currents variation is as low as 0.5 m (1.6 ft) and are governed mostly by wind. In summer NW winds drive surface water south for about four months at a velocity of 15-20 cm/s (6–8 in/s)., whereas in winter the flow is reversed resulting in the inflow of water from the Gulf of Aden into the Red Sea. The net value of the latter predominates, resulting in an overall drift to the northern end of the Red Sea. Generally the velocity of the tidal current is between 50-60 cm/s (20–23.6 in/s) with a maximum of 1 m/s (3.3 ft). at the mouth of the al-Kharrar Lagoon. However, the range of north-northeast current along the Saudi coast is 8-29 cm/s (3–11.4 in/s).

Winds: With the exception of the northern part of the Red Sea, which is dominated by persistent north-west winds, with speeds ranging between 7 km/h (4.3 mph) and 12 km/h (7.5 mph)., the rest of the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden are subjected to the influence of regular and seasonally reversible winds. The wind regime is characterized by both seasonal and regional variations in speed and direction with average speed generally increasing northward.

It looks like there is a monsoon regime, similar to the Indian ocean. In any case there has always been commercial traffic between India and Egypt since the antiquity. I would have no doubt that a revamping of the old canal would be commercially feasible. Berenice was the Egyptian port on the Red sea which catered to the Indian trade.
 
I voted Ragusa due to the fact all the others are just to exposed. Had it not been for Napoleon Ragusa would quite probably survive untill WW II and might get restored following the war once the Italians are ousted.
 
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