which line of the house of vasa should rule Sweden?

Alright that would work
Generally Sweden and PLC have contradictory interests even without Charles' usurpation. But if Sigismund and Gustav keeps good relations like Sigi and Anna did IOTL foreign policy of both countries would change drastically-maybe instead of trying to change Baltic into "Swedish Lake" Gustav is happy with Baltic as "Vasa Lake"? PLC would have cooler relations with Habsburgs, Sweden would not ally with Russia during the Time of Troubles. Maybe we'll see return of Vienna-Moscow alliance?
Maybe there will be Vasa-Vasa marriage in next generation to keep close ties between two branches? Say Gustav's daughter marry Sigismund's son (IOTL Władysław IV married late and had no legitimate surviving children, maybe his alternate version could be more successful).
 
Generally Sweden and PLC have contradictory interests even without Charles' usurpation. But if Sigismund and Gustav keeps good relations like Sigi and Anna did IOTL foreign policy of both countries would change drastically-maybe instead of trying to change Baltic into "Swedish Lake" Gustav is happy with Baltic as "Vasa Lake"? PLC would have cooler relations with Habsburgs, Sweden would not ally with Russia during the Time of Troubles. Maybe we'll see return of Vienna-Moscow alliance?
Maybe there will be Vasa-Vasa marriage in next generation to keep close ties between two branches? Say Gustav's daughter marry Sigismund's son (IOTL Władysław IV married late and had no legitimate surviving children, maybe his alternate version could be more successful).
Sounds good to me, and likely to make Russia shit herself
 
I've thought about another option-oldest child of John III Vasa and Catherine Jagiellonica born in 1564 is a healthly boy, named Sigismund but with Anna Vasa's personality, second child,son named John born in 1566 is analogue of OTL Sigismund III. So alternate Sigismund, who is undisputed heir to Swedish throne converts to Lutheranism and his younger Catholic brother is elected to Polish throne as John II. To be continued...
I intendet this scenario to be base for massive Vasa wank.
 
A,righty Gustav it is then, king if Sweden from 1592, I do wonder who he might marry

Arbella Stewart. Sigi proposed to her after his first wife died. James VI was in favour of the match, since it removed a prospective rival, the lady was not, and pleaded that she could not marry without her sovereign (Elizabeth)'s permission. Of course, the relations IIRC between London and Warsaw were subzero after the Polish ambassador had insulted Liz at some point in the past.

Otherwise, Christine of Holstein is the best bet. Just wanted to mention Arbella for interest's sake.

As to @Svetonius21's Vasa wank - looking forward to it. Please tell me we have a Vasa Czar (at least for a time) and a couple mad Vasas (Eriksens perhaps?) as well;)
 
Last edited:
Arbella Stewart. Sigi proposed to her after his first wife died. James VI was in favour of the match, since it removed a prospective rival, the lady was not, and pleaded that she could not marry without her sovereign (Elizabeth)'s permission. Of course, the relations IIRC between London and Warsaw were subzero after the Polish ambassador had insulted Liz at some point in the past.

Otherwise, Christine of Holstein is the best bet. Just wanted to mention Arbella for interest's sake.

As to @Behemoth's Vasa wank - looking forward to it. Please tell me we have a Vasa Czar (at least for a time) and a couple mad Vasas (Eriksens perhaps?) as well;)
Ooh now that would be something
 
John III Vasa (1537-1592). King of Sweden 1568-1592. Married:
1) Catherine Jagiellonica (1523-1583).
Children:
* Sigismund (1564-1635). King of Sweden 1592-1635. Married Christine of Holstein
* John II (1566-1632). King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania 1587-1632. Married Anna of Austria.
* Isabella (1568-1570)
2) Gunilla Bielke (1568-1597)
* Gustav, Duke of Östergötland (1589-1625)
 
In scenario with harmonic dynastic union I wonder if PLC could side with Sweden during 30 Years War and take Silesia from Habsburgs? Thus Poland-Lithuania switches to alliance with France. Russia would be screwed even more than IOTL but putting Vasa on the Russian throne is riskful-he'd be likely murdered by boyars sooner or later. Better leave Russia in state of chaos and take everything up to 1494 Lithuanian border (plus Pskov, Novgorod and Kola Peninsula for Sweden).
 
As to @Svetonius21's Vasa wank - looking forward to it. Please tell me we have a Vasa Czar (at least for a time) and a couple mad Vasas (Eriksens perhaps?) as well

Yes please, though without the Vasa Czar (or perhaps only one, murdered by boyars as an excuse for another war, which will end with a three-way border on the ashes of moscow).
 
Yes please, though without the Vasa Czar (or perhaps only one, murdered by boyars as an excuse for another war, which will end with a three-way border on the ashes of moscow).

Gustaf Eriksen marries Xenia Borisovna Godunova, has kids with her. Gustaf is crazy for cocopuffs (like dear-old dad), and gets murdered by the boyars when he wants to conquer then Sweden, then Poland, and then wants to be Holy Roman Emperor (hey, one of Gustaf I's sons suggested his dad should stand IIRC). Czarina Xenia gets shut up in a nunnery or exiled with her kids, and then the Vasas spend the next century claiming to be czar of Russia (as the kings of Poland did OTL with the Swedish royal title, AFAIK).
 
John III Vasa (1537-1592). King of Sweden 1568-1592. Married:
1) Catherine Jagiellonica (1523-1583).
Children:
* Sigismund (1564-1635). King of Sweden 1592-1635. Married Christine of Holstein
* John II (1566-1632). King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania 1587-1632. Married Anna of Austria.
* Isabella (1568-1570)
2) Gunilla Bielke (1568-1597)
* Gustav, Duke of Östergötland (1589-1625)
Marriage plans for next generation:
Brandenburg girl for Swedish prince (like IOTL) is OK. Poland OTOH... If Vasa-Habsburg relations worsened ITTL could John II of Poland look for wife for his son in France perhaps? Especially if Henry IV's death is butterflied away-he despised Habsburgs so if he lives longer Habsburg marriages of his kids would not happen. And Polish-Swedish Vasa block is perfect ally against Emperor.
 
Marriage plans for next generation:
Brandenburg girl for Swedish prince (like IOTL) is OK. Poland OTOH... If Vasa-Habsburg relations worsened ITTL could John II of Poland look for wife for his son in France perhaps? Especially if Henry IV's death is butterflied away-he despised Habsburgs so if he lives longer Habsburg marriages of his kids would not happen. And Polish-Swedish Vasa block is perfect ally against Emperor.
Intriguing
 
Poland OTOH... If Vasa-Habsburg relations worsened ITTL could John II of Poland look for wife for his son in France perhaps? Especially if Henry IV's death is butterflied away-he despised Habsburgs so if he lives longer Habsburg marriages of his kids would not happen. And Polish-Swedish Vasa block is perfect ally against Emperor.

I don't think a Valois/Bourbon-Vasa match is unthinkable. Caterina de Medici wanted Henri III to marry Elisabet Vasa (OTL duchess of Mecklenburg), not to mentiothat Bona Sforza wanted Sigismund II to marry a French girl (OTL duchesse de Guise/Nemours IIRC) after his first wife died. Which proves that France had an interest in reining in the Habsburgs and that Poland was interested in reaching further than Vienna/Prague for a bride.
 
I don't think a Valois/Bourbon-Vasa match is unthinkable. Caterina de Medici wanted Henri III to marry Elisabet Vasa (OTL duchess of Mecklenburg), not to mentiothat Bona Sforza wanted Sigismund II to marry a French girl (OTL duchesse de Guise/Nemours IIRC) after his first wife died. Which proves that France had an interest in reining in the Habsburgs and that Poland was interested in reaching further than Vienna/Prague for a bride.
It isn’t unthinkable. The thread below shows of the possibility of getting a Bourbon matched with either Sweden or Denmark: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-bourbon-sweden-or-denmark.406334/
 
Top