Where the River Flows: The Story of Misia: A Native American Superpower

Ah, so the American settlers of OTL are heading to the River Plate. I’d have to say controlling its entire watershed and neighboring areas is a big deal for creating a Misian-style power, especially if the English colonists had overwhelmed the Iberians as mentioned to create a coherent identity.

What is the Nokaki River? The Texas-Colorado? Brazos?

I'm curious about their accents.
 
I'm curious about their accents.
Hahahaha, true. That'll be fun to hear.

OTL's American colonists definitely were a mass migration, and this is in an age and area where I suspect - I don't know Argentine and southern Brazilian settlement numbers of the time - they overwhelm the Iberians like I said. I see any Iberian cultural or even ethnic influence being diluted out fairly rapidly much like New Netherland became New York, a plural mishmash of Europeans in ethnicity at worst and almost entirely Anglo at the opposite end, but very definitively Anglic in culture without much trace of the original founders no matter who's living there. Heck, a direct OTL example in Brazil itself is the French Antarctic and Equatorial colonies, which were razed or captured by Portugal and no one doubts they're certainly Lusitanic in culture today. Sao Paulo was founded in 1554, Rio in 1565, Buenos Aires in 1580 - easy enough to assimilate when the Yankees alone had 20,000 migrants total (to say nothing of Chesapeake colonists and eventual Quakers and Carolinians) and Sao Paulo itself had but 1,500 people in 1600.

This timeline is exploring my pet idea that the geography of the USA east of the Rockies and especially the Mississippi watershed and neighbor areas is easy to unify in political and cultural terms, but the fact the *Americans in TTL will get a chance to still become a geographically large and prosperous power in another giant but easily unified region, the River Plate, is going to fascinate me.
 
This could be a more recent development than I think, but isn't it normal for diplomatic conferences to take place in neutral countries? I would expect Hamburg, Denmark or perhaps an Italian city-state to be the chosen location.

So, we are seeing a British Argentina. Will there still be a more concentrated Welsh presence somewhere? With the Iberian union controlling lands to the north and the Inca and Mapuche not exactly friendly powers, there are threats around which would keep initial desires for independence to a minimum, With stronger native powers around, those who wish to disregard treaties with the natives for the benefit of their own opportunity to settle the frontier will be much less supported, especially as it's common knowledge that British power in the new world is currently a factor of having good relations with several major powers in North America. I can see a taxation-and-representation-based quarrel still happening, but without other factors supporting an independence movement, it seems probable that will see a diplomatic solution eventually.
 
This could be a more recent development than I think, but isn't it normal for diplomatic conferences to take place in neutral countries? I would expect Hamburg, Denmark or perhaps an Italian city-state to be the chosen location.
It is far from a white peace on part of the Habsburg Spaniards, especially regarding the Low Countries.
So, we are seeing a British Argentina. Will there still be a more concentrated Welsh presence somewhere? With the Iberian union controlling lands to the north and the Inca and Mapuche not exactly friendly powers, there are threats around which would keep initial desires for independence to a minimum, With stronger native powers around, those who wish to disregard treaties with the natives for the benefit of their own opportunity to settle the frontier will be much less supported, especially as it's common knowledge that British power in the new world is currently a factor of having good relations with several major powers in North America. I can see a taxation-and-representation-based quarrel still happening, but without other factors supporting an independence movement, it seems probable that will see a diplomatic solution eventually.
And then, the natives are far more capable of resisting, to say nothing of their being "civilised" being much more apparent, their paganism notwithstanding.

The strategy of such a speculative American state may revolve around single-mindedly securing the Platinean basin.
 
Chapter 19: The World in 1600
Chapter 19: The World in 1600
WTRF 1600 map.png

1600– seven years since the Treaty of London, 65 years since the Dinei conquest of Orayvi, 78 years since the first Spanish invasion of Misia, 83 years since the Treaty of St. John’s, 94 years since the union of Dadacia, 104 years since the arrival of Cabot, 108 years since the arrival of Columbus, 150 years since the formation of the Haudenosaunee federation, 162 years since the formation of the Inca Empire, 172 years since the formation of the Meshica Empire, and 188 years since the formation of the Kilsu Dynasty, 700 years since the end of the Mayan classical period, 1050 years since the reign of Thaampo I in Kutsan, and 1705 years since the formation of the Hileni Dynasty. The history of the Americas goes back thousands of years, but some of its most drastic changes had been seen within the last century. Since then, Hispaniola had come under the full control of the Spanish, as had the other islands of the Greater Antilles which the Taino had once called home; populations all over the continent would rapidly decline due to disease before rebounding at unprecedented rates; new technology and strife across many states allowed those strongest and most advanced to emerge as regional hegemons. Spain ruled the Caribbean. Portugal ruled Brazil. England ruled Takamcook and Argentina and dominated trade between Europe and East America. France took whatever minor trading posts it could get. Although there had been many native American states for millennia, due to European colonialism and consolidation, there were now only eight major native states– Kilsu Misia, the Meshica Empire, the Inca Empire, the Haudenosaunee Federation, the Federation of Tsenacommacah, the Wabanaki Federation, the Dinei Empire, and the Kingdom of Dadacia. There were also significant diaspora populations, particularly of Tainos and Jews.

Misia was by far the largest nation in the Americas. Although its pre-Columbian population of 60 million would collapse by a total of 80% from disease, the survivors were quite prosperous. There was far more room to move into cities, and farmland had been redistributed to those who remained loyal to the Emperor and stayed on the land, and new crops and animals arrived from Europe. While disease still posed a threat, Misia, like many other parts of the Americas, was able to recover significantly, reaching a population of 40 million by the end of the century, making it the third largest state in the world after Ming China (150 million) and Mughal India (56 million). Cahoqua remained the largest city with its population of nearly 400,000. The city of Shawasha came in second at just over 200,000. Following Shawasha, the largest cities were Mabila (130,000), Shicaqua (100,000), Washtanoqua (80,000), Nicota (67,000), Kiawah (56,000), and Yamacraw (50,000). Tekesta, Tanpa, and Osachit were relatively small following the Spanish withdrawal and the war against the Christians, but were quickly gaining population as Misian settlers were starting to move into the land.

To the east, the Haudenosaunee ruled the eastern Great Lakes, the Upper Wepistook, and the most valuable ports of the Eastern Seaboard from Mashowomuk to the Cape of Akomak. Although the city of Onandaga served as the capital of the Federation, it was just barely the largest city. Even prior to European contact, it typically competed with the capitals of other major constituent nations before eventually surpassing them, but now its population was actually neck-in-neck with Cheektowaga and Kawanoteh. However, now other cities were starting to rise. Manhattan had seen rapid growth since the construction of the Eriron Canal, and was on the verge of passing the other three. To the north, the Wabanaki had a far smaller population, but useful ports of their own from which they were able to export lumber, syrup, grapes, wine, and berries. Cadeskit and Machigon, although smaller than other major American cities, were the largest cities, and were useful centers for shipbuilding. Despite its often swampy coast, Tsenacommacah had valuable ports of its own, including Chesapeake, Potapskut, and the capital of Werocomoco, from which the English purchased large quantities of tobacco and other goods. The populations of the Haudenosaunee, Tsenacommacah, and Wabanaki were 4 million, 3 million, and 500,000 respectively. In the Haudenosaunee lands, one third of the population lived in the territories captured during the Atlantic Wars, referred to as the “Coastal” or “Lenape Territories”, even though large portions did not yet identify themselves as Lenape at the time. English Takamcook, meanwhile, had a population numbering in the tens of thousands.

To the west, the Dinei Empire ruled over a population of around 1.5 million, of which about half lived in Kutsan and on the Kumeyay coast. The empire had tried to expand north unsuccessfully while facing some minor rebellions. Indeed, the concept of empire was quite new in Oasisamerica, having been enabled entirely by the horse. While Natani Nez was the capital, the city of Yuum was the largest. Outside of the Western portion of the empire, the largest city was Tuf Shur Tia. Oravyi, although a significant trade and religious hub, remained quite small.

Further west, the expansion of the Dadacians had more or less stagnated. Although they controlled the bay area and most of the central valley, the mountainous terrain and many small tribes made expansion difficult, especially as horses were defused. The kingdom had a population of around 2 million, supported by the vast fertile land. While it had rebounded, much like the Dinei Empire, it had not yet seen the same massive regrowth in other parts of the Americas. Still, Socoisuka remained the most populous city, followed by Yelapu.

To the south, Meshica Empire ruled the entirety of Mesoamerica. Although the Mesoamericans had seen a similar population collapse as their colleagues to the north, they had significantly rebounded to a population of 15 million. Around the time contact was made with the Spanish, between a quarter or a third of Mesoamerica’s population lived under Meshica rule. Now, it was 100%. Although it was diverse, the eastern portion shared a Mayan culture, while the western portion was becoming majority Nawa as surrounding peoples were encouraged to adopt Nawa culture. Unity was further fostered by victory over the “Misiwatecs”, which was seen as a sign of divine favor from the gods. This divine favor, of course, did not prevent the spread of Christianity. Although the religion remained small, missionaries had carried it inland, and now as many as half a million Mesoamericans were practicing Christianity in secret. Tenochtitlan had seen its population rebound to around 150,000, and as the center of the gold and spice trade, it had become perhaps the wealthiest city in the entire world. The next largest city was the port of Zempoala, which boasted a population of around 100,000.

Tawantisuyu, referred to in this period as the Inca Empire, home to 10 million, stretched across the Andes all the way to the Caribbean in the north, where the French held their sphere of influence over the autonomous Muisca Suyu, home to about a fifth of the population. Although Qusqu remained the largest city in the empire, the port cities were now growing the fastest, particularly Tumbes and Wayakil in the north, Ichima in the south, and Port Francois on the Caribbean coast. It would be from these ports that spices, cacao, llama and alpaca wool, and minerals mined from the Andes would be exported.

Crossing from the Pacific or Atlantic, goods from the Inca Empire would pass through Spanish Central America, typically through Panama or through Rivas in Nicaragua. From there, it would usually stop at the island of Cuba, the center of Spanish power in the New World. In addition to the Greater Antilles and Central America, the colony of Parias on the northern coast of South America. At the time, Spanish America was home to only around 1-2 million people. In Portuguese Brazil, at the time also part of the Iberian Union, the population was far smaller at only around 50,000.

South of Brazil, English Argentina was just getting started. It was home to only a few thousand people, but immigrant populations were starting to come in pursuit of gold. Sir Walter Raleigh had begun leading British expeditions to the colonies of Bonusairs, Janera, and St. Paul, and up the River Plate to create new settlements, allotting farmland to thousands of new English settlers.

In addition to large states, the Taino and Jewish diasporas were farming large cultures of their own. Both generally were confined to cities, making up part of the mercantilist cast. For the Tainos, Shawasha and Mabila were still the largest centers of settlement, with other major centers including Sacuqua, Apalachiqua, Yamacra, Kiawah, Zempoala, Cozumel, and Chetumal. There were growing population centers now as well in Manhattan, Chesapeake, and other northeastern cities, as well as in the newly conquered cities of Pikate. Almost paradoxically, there was also a growing Taino diaspora population living in Spanish America. A community of about 1000 moved to live in Duhozemi, and many were joined by Taino conversos who had kept their identities hidden from the inquisition and chose to revert back to Zemism, which the Spanish were often reluctant to crack down on due to a desire to avoid conflict with the Misians. The total Taino population at the time was around 300,000. The Jewish population was primarily concentrated along the Eastern Seaboard and along the southern ports of Misia. Manhattan and Shawasha were by far the two largest centers of Maaravi Jewry, so much so that Jews of the seaboard referred to themselves as the “Munsayim”, while the Jews of southern Misia referred to themselves as “Shavashim”. In total, there were around 25,000 Jews in the New World, with about two thirds of them being Munsayim and one third being Shavashim.

In total, close to 80 million people lived in the Americas around this time. Although this number was less than it was in 1492, it was also far greater than it was at the start of the century, thanks to massive population growth driven by plentiful resources, newly found political stability due to increased political consolidation, and new crops, livestock, and technology brought by Europeans. As populations began to reapproach their pre-Columbian level, people would still continue to demand to be able to maintain their previous standard of living, and while the international system seemed stable, the demographic bomb would pave the way for internal changes within the different American societies.​
 
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This is the part where i ask for feedback. Is the population rebound here too much? The way I see it this is still less than 2% per year.
 
While disease still posed a threat, Misia, like many other parts of the Americas, was able to recover significantly, reaching a population of 40 million by the end of the century, making it the third largest state in the world after Ming China (150 million) and Mughal India (56 million)
Small nitpick. Mughal India in 1600 would have had a population anywhere from 100 to 120 million. 56 million is way less.
 
This is the part where i ask for feedback. Is the population rebound here too much? The way I see it this is still less than 2% per year.
I think population growth below 2% isn't implausible in these circumstances, but I'd like to know more about mortality -- especially recurrent pandemics and urban mortality. I'd also be a little uncertain about whether it would be maintained at that level over the longer term.

You probably shouldn't use the population growth rates in the link above, because they're modern -- now we just don't see the high rates of infant mortality, for example, that were prevalent in the pre-modern era, and which probably kept population growth low or even stable despite higher birth rates.
 
A Hugenot king in France, a Dutch Mega-Republic, policies of religious Tolerance everywhere, including by a Habsburg Monarch... You probably have just butterflied the 30YW. Which would be the largest possible German-wank on Earth.
 
A Hugenot king in France, a Dutch Mega-Republic, policies of religious Tolerance everywhere, including by a Habsburg Monarch... You probably have just butterflied the 30YW. Which would be the largest possible German-wank on Earth.
Agitators may not share the same sentiment, however, and the Habsburgs may still try to pull a Louis XV, to predictably disastrous results even when it's done in increments.

Now, the Low Countries Republic will also be aligned with the English for a while, and will surely compete with France over the control of the Rhine River. Midwestern Europe sure looks to be interesting.
 
A Hugenot king in France, a Dutch Mega-Republic, policies of religious Tolerance everywhere, including by a Habsburg Monarch... You probably have just butterflied the 30YW. Which would be the largest possible German-wank on Earth.
Perhaps, but other wars would still happen and the HRE would be in an even worse spot
 
Perhaps, but other wars would still happen and the HRE would be in an even worse spot
It is very well possible that the HRE explodes, yes.
But that kind of mass death, with the population of the German speaking lands reduced from 18 million to 9 million, would be weird to still happen under totally changed circumstances.
I didn't mean to say it's going to be a HRE-wank. I meant: a lot more Germans will be alive, and that means the continent speaks a lot more German as we approach the modern age (like it did throughout the Middle Ages).
 
It is very well possible that the HRE explodes, yes.
But that kind of mass death, with the population of the German speaking lands reduced from 18 million to 9 million, would be weird to still happen under totally changed circumstances.
I didn't mean to say it's going to be a HRE-wank. I meant: a lot more Germans will be alive, and that means the continent speaks a lot more German as we approach the modern age (like it did throughout the Middle Ages).
The tragedy of the Tainos may serve as a precaution against religious zealotry. However, I fear that averting such a scenario is still not set in stone; the Treaty of London is still far from being an analogue of Treaty of Westphalia, considering that much of Germany and European Christendom is not included in that conflict to concede religious toleration.

Rome may also not like this one bit, and may start plotting against the Protestant encroachment. The Austrian Hapsburgs could still prove to be Pandora's box of such a counter-reformatory movement, ideology even. This time however, the further diminishing of the preeminence and prestige of the two is much more certain considering their far weaker position relative to OTL.
 
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So currently I am in the middle of finals at my university. While I am doing some writing for ideas I already have mostly fleshed out, my bandwidth for further research and planning is a bit limited. I have a lot of ideas for what I'm doing in the Americas in the early to mid 17th Century, but Europe I'm still figuring out. Admittedly, early modern Europe is a topic I tend to find complex, confusing, and challenging at times, and I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to tackle that. I'm looking mostly for general advice, but if anyone has more specific suggestions on the effects of Henry IV remaining Protestant and a big united Netherlands, my dms are open.
 

Deleted member 147978

So currently I am in the middle of finals at my university. While I am doing some writing for ideas I already have mostly fleshed out, my bandwidth for further research and planning is a bit limited. I have a lot of ideas for what I'm doing in the Americas in the early to mid 17th Century, but Europe I'm still figuring out. Admittedly, early modern Europe is a topic I tend to find complex, confusing, and challenging at times, and I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to tackle that. I'm looking mostly for general advice, but if anyone has more specific suggestions on the effects of Henry IV remaining Protestant and a big united Netherlands, my dms are open.
My question is, what became of England, Scotland, and Ireland in your TL?
 
What will Misia do once cotton starts being grown in their South? Their agricultural economy may be much more diversified than OTL, but Europe can still be willing to shit metals for that particular product.

Or rather, where will Europe look forward to sourcing cheap cash crops from?
 
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