So the Swedish princess has been butterflied into a prince? That resolves a lot of Sweden's problems.
Where Hearts Were Entertaining June: An English Brazil
- Thread starter Witch0Winter
- Start date
Couple of things
How did Silesia get Austria and Bohemia? x3
James I of House Stuart-Orange?....you cant just add on the Orange name if hes Stuart who just married a member of the Orange family
There's no way that the Habsburgs would've allowed the Swedes a electoral vote....more likely they would've released those territories from the Empire than lost power in it
How did Silesia get Austria and Bohemia? x3
James I of House Stuart-Orange?....you cant just add on the Orange name if hes Stuart who just married a member of the Orange family
There's no way that the Habsburgs would've allowed the Swedes a electoral vote....more likely they would've released those territories from the Empire than lost power in it
Witch0Winter
Banned
Hmm, well, one of my sources said there was at one point an attempt to combine the houses of Stuart and Orange into Stuart-Orange, so I went with that, but I suppose I can go back and change it.
Also, Sweden, in the OTL Thirty Years' War, did receive an Imperial vote, though it didn't last for very long and I believe most of its territory was not part of the Empire. Still, that was a real thing.
Oh, I'll be covering more than just Brazil and Europe, I'll be looking at Asia, Africa, and North America periodically to show the growth and development of those lands.
Oh, I'll be covering more than just Brazil and Europe, I'll be looking at Asia, Africa, and North America periodically to show the growth and development of those lands.
Hmm... these places wouldn't include a certain mercantile state on a certain tropical Peninsula by a certain famous strait, now would it?
Of course, the Portuguese had already sacked the capital well before the POD, but the survivors of that... <_<Also, no comment from me on the Twenty Years War due to knowing absolutely shit about the timeframe.
Interesting times in Europe it seems. I will echo sketchdoodle in not having much knowledge of the time period in Europe, but nothing really struck me as being out of place. Now that Sweden has its link with Brandenburg, how will that affect their relations with Poland (given that they warned off Russia from joining the fray)?
Witch0Winter
Banned
Where Hearts Were Entertaining June
Ashes to Ashes
The Twenty Years’ War would, on the maps and minds of Europe, have a profound effect in the future. The starkness of brutality and bleakness of destruction raised a generation who retreated into their homes and castles in fear of another war to come. Some, especially in the church, preached that the next war would be Europe’s last. Kings, Princes, Bishops, and other rulers feared further devastation to their realms, and for a time, peace settled.
For many nations, this proved a prosperous peace. Sweden found itself, after the war, in a position it had never dreamed. Prince Christian of Brandenburg, in 1648, ascended to the throne of Sweden upon the death of Charles X. With his ascension, the houses of Hohenzollern and Vasa were united on the throne of the Swedish Empire. Ruling from Stockholm, Christian controlled the fourth largest empire in Europe, behind Russia, Spain, and England. While much of Europe struggled to recover, Sweden prospered under a strong government and bustling economy.
While Sweden grew in political power and prospered, Denmark-Norway was politically sidelined. Its efforts had resulted in no real gain for the kingdom and had only set it apart from its more successful neighbor and rival, Sweden. Denmark-Norway was not down by a long shot, but being politically isolated after the war, the nation went into a period of isolation from much of the rest of Europe, only participating in trade but rarely politics. Some of the younger generation had grand ideas of marrying into Sweden in the hopes of uniting the two nations, but the days of the Kalmar Union were over. The two nations neither wanted to be together once more, and instead kept their distance, as much as they could in Scandinavia.
Portugal had been a surprising result from the war. Despite England’s withdrawal of support for the nation, the rebellions had never fully ceased, and only increased in intensity during the Twenty Years’ War. Facing defeats on multiple fronts to France, unrest in the New World, and political backlash at home over a sinking economy, the Spanish could not handle Portugal. Though its independence was not recognized until 1641, it had been de facto independent since 1635, when the last official Spanish garrison left Lisbon.
Not one to dally, Portugal seized control of a single New World colony. This colony had been founded using Lisbonense funds and sailors to the northern continent in the Americas, where they landed in a swampy wetland whose natives were known as the “Roanoco”. Taking this name for the colony, it quickly grew from its founding in 1618 until 1641, when Portugal claimed its majority Portuguese population. This proved important to Portugal, as Roanoco, along with the fairly minor African colonies it had wrestled back, was all that was left of its previous empire. England steadfastly refused to give back Brazil, and Portugal’s Asian colonies had managed to be eaten up. The Mughal Empire had taken Goa, while Malacca had been reclaimed in a renewed, upstart Malacca Sultanate. Though Portugal had began to claim colonies in the East Indies and on the island of Ceylon, its focus would remain primarily on North America.
As Portugal turned its eyes to North America, it found it was not the only one. France had expanded its North American colony from a small fort and town called Quebec City, to a large colony along the banks of the St. Lawrence River. It had also expanded its colonization of Acadia and Newfoundland, setting up townships and villages. Much of this was led by King Henry VI, who approved the settlement of Huguenots in the New World, prompting a mass migration of the Protestants over the latter half of the century.
The Dutch Republic, meanwhile, had established the colony of New Amsterdam on the southern tip of the island of Manhattan in 1609. During and after the Twenty Years’ War, the colony expanded up the Rio de Montaigne (North River), into the fertile lands that lay within. The settlers began to come into contact with the Iroquois tribe, but an initial policy of live and let live was deemed preferable by both parties and generally adhered to.
Spain and England (now, under the House of Stuart-Orange, Great Britain) also began to shift some attention to North America. Spain’s colony in Mexico began taking precedence over the silver-rich South America in order to alleviate inflation. Spain also began settling more familial groups and women into Mexico rather than just young men to build families and communities rather than adventure seekers.
Great Britain’s influence came in the colony of Messipia. The colony was initially established by Scotland in 1598, who named the colony after their name for the river, as the colony sat at the mouth of the river, where it met the Atlantic. The venture was more of a failure for Scotland, and helped contribute to the decision to join with England, but under the British it quickly grew and expanded. Though it was founded on Spanish territory, payment to a grateful Spain was enough to establish a good amount of land for the colony and the surrounding area. Sitting on favorable land and having a more “normal” climate, it soon competed with Brazil for more colonists.
While the rest of the world continued to change, Brazil sat in its own corner of the Earth and silently grew and prospered. The Twenty Years’ War gave it money and people in the form of refugees. With the focus on North America, Brazil was free to continue expanding and pressing its boundaries further and further on the continent. However, Brazil’s growth also began to fracture the balance between the English and the Portuguese, the old and the new. If this colony was going to get anywhere in the world, the differences had to be solved before it spilled over into bloodshed.
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If the Mississippi is a large English colony though it's eventually going to be a major obstacle to any Portuguese spreading west over the Appalachians. Part of the reason it was easy in OTL was because the French had settled the river so sparsely. And early America knew that whoever controlled mouth of the Mississippi controlled the economics of the entire river basin.
I really like this timeline.
this is certainly a good TL, and Portuguese America is an intriguing idea, but wouldn't they use a different pronunciation of Roanoke.
Witch0Winter
Banned
Of course, but I call them Roanoke for the same reason I call the nation in central Europe Germany and not Deutschland: this timeline is written in English.
Hnau
Banned
Roanoke is an anglicization of the tribe that lived around the colony and on Roanoke Island, the Roanoac. The Portuguese sometimes used native names for their colonies, such as Pernambuco which comes from Tupi. I guarantee that, if they based the colony's name on the native tribe's, they wouldn't call it "Roanoke". The letter K isn't very popular in Portuguese at all.
I suggest the name Roanoco, the natives would be known as the Roanocano. The pronunciation of Roanoco would be "ho-a-NO-co".
I was going to suggest that the Portuguese would colonize the OTL Virginia territory... it's not immediately apparent that it would be a rich colony, but someone would have colonized the area if the English didn't get there in the early 17th century. And the Portuguese would have wanted to nab easy colonial territory wherever they could find it as soon as they regained their independence, as losing Brazil would have set them back considerably in the race against the other empires. I think it's likely that after they win back their independence, Portugal will receive many Portuguese-speaking Brazilians returning to the home country, or maybe they'll go straight to the new colonies in North America.
As for England, the English Puritans are still going to want to leave if we still get someone like King Charles I. Brazil is less ideal of a destination because the Puritans wanted badly to create a new society where there was none before, and Brazil already has a Catholic settler population. I think more are going to want to go to a fresh colony. So Brazil might receive the English settlers that would have gone to Virginia, purely because they want to own land and join in the lucrative trade of the area, but less of the settlers that IOTL went to New England. Maybe, though, the Puritans will create their own settlements a little more inland, and far to the south where there are fewer Portuguese. It'll be harder to get to than New England, though, that's for sure.
The presence of so many African slaves and a free Portuguese population right at the beginning of the English colonial project is going to change the cultural and societal milieu quite a bit. Don't expect English Brazil to mimic the progression of English Virginia too neatly.
Witch0Winter
Banned
I like your idea quite a bit more. Roanoco it is.
I won't give much away, but let's just say you're more right toward this TL than you may think. Brazil is not going to become Virginia, you're right, and Roanoco won't mimic Virginia or Portuguese Brazil exactly either, because it is alternate history. What I can say is that you are right that most people that end up going to Brazil later do it for the profit, not necessarily for religion (well, not the Puritans, anyway...). But one must remember, the English did just begin another colony in North America, Messipia, which happens to be closer to England and not filled with Portuguese or slaves.
Of course, but I call them Roanoke for the same reason I call the nation in central Europe Germany and not Deutschland: this timeline is written in English.
sorry, it was not my intention to intrude.
that's all I was meaning, he just managed to say it much better and more constructively.
Wow, this alt-North America should prove pretty interesting...I do gotta wonder what the Sweden-Brandenburg angle is going to lead to. Meanwhile, Brazil is coming along nicely, with (I assume) a goodly amount of still-arriving colonists even with another colony waiting in the wings. Keep up the good work!
AHA! I knew my favorite Asian polity will make an appearance in the timeline soon enough! And agreed with the above: a Swedish-Brandenburg Empire will definitely kick a lot of things around.
Witch0Winter
Banned
Where Hearts Were Entertaining June
Trying Times
It was no secret, in the early days of the Brazil colony, that tensions between the Portuguese and English would eventually come to a head. In 1600, there were 100,000 Portuguese colonists, many of them mulattoes. That number, counting the mixed race, increased to close to 125,000 by 1650, even counting the many who made the journey back to Portugal. The English, meanwhile, numbered a scant 60,000 by 1650, counting German and Irish immigrants that were lumped in with them. Something had to be done.
The differences were many. A majority of the English colonists were Protestant; either Anglican Englishmen or Calvinist Germans. A few Catholic Irish were mixed in, but not in the sheer numbers that the Portuguese had. While the religious conflicts of Europe did not spill over into Brazil out of necessity, it was an uneasy middle ground at best. Few Portuguese spoke English, and few English spoke Portuguese. The English also treated their slaves marginally better, but the Portuguese treated the natives better and were willing to accept intermarriages. Officially, intermarriages were illegal in English Brazil from 1595 until 1619 when a small rebellion prompted a change, though English society still held it to be below their station.
However, the English were also aware the colony did not work without the Portuguese. They owned most of the large plantations and companies in each town, and were the only ones in the colony with economic ties to the rest of the Americas. The Portuguese, especially the descendants of the first settlers, were also the only whites able to penetrate deeper inland in Brazil, as the English were confined to the coast due to disease and climate. Without the Portuguese, the colony wouldn’t function. However, the English were starting to make inroads into Brazilian life, little by little, and this began to upset the Portuguese.
To the north, in Roanocca, the new colony the Portuguese created began to grow. At first, it stood only as a trade colony, until 1649, when one settler happened to bring with him smuggled tobacco seeds out of Spain. He took those seeds and planted them in the fertile soil around the colony, and the tobacco plant found its root. Soon, tobacco farms sprung up all over the colony. With tobacco came the promise of wealth, and thus attracted more and more Portuguese settlers to the colony. The favorable climate compared to Africa or even South America was a major factor. By 1670, the colony numbered over 20,000.
The success of the Roanocca colony provided an outlet for the Brazilian Portuguese. No longer did they have to be trapped under English rule. In the North American colony, they could live with their kinsmen under the flag of their mother country. So, from docks in Queenstown and Port Elizabeth, the Portuguese began to leave Brazil. First in trickles, then in droves. While initially considered a boon for the colony, it was soon found to be a very undesirable situation. Most of the Portuguese leaving were not the poor and working class, who were tied to their jobs. Instead, they were the planters and businessmen who owned so much land and wealth in the colony, and promptly took it with them.
Matters were not helped by Messipia. Though the colony was not nearly as profitable as Brazil, it had its advantages. The climate was favorable to Europeans, there were no Portuguese already there, and it was closer to England. Most of the first colonists were the religious, especially the Purist sect of the Anglican Church. They came to Messipia not for riches, but religious freedom. However, once the colony on the mouth of the Messipia River proved profitable, more and more English were attracted there instead of Brazil.
By 1680, Brazil had begun to empty out, the number of colonists drawn to the country was halved. Those that stayed in Brazil were the poor Portuguese, the mulattoes, and the greedy English. Those who continued to arrive weren’t much better. Young men seeking their fortunes replaced the family groups who had once come in droves, which only made the colony more restless as time went on. Under the rule of Governor Jonathan Raleigh, the grandson of Sir Walter Raleigh, Brazil nearly fell apart in a rebellion taking place in the south, around the city of Raleigh.
It may have spread to the entire colony had it not been for the commander of the local militia, Colonel Michael Godwin. He and his soldiers successfully negotiated with the rebels, who were simply rioting against the government’s recent crackdowns on taxes. Once the fighting had stopped, Godwin took the demands of the citizens to Governor Raleigh to review.
What the citizens of the city of Raleigh wanted, an idea that would spread through Brazil in the coming years, was representation. They wanted to have a governing body that allowed them some word in the government. Governor Raleigh, being weak-willed and unwilling to fight with Godwin, sent a message to King Charles in London, asking for guidance.
Charles, loathe to see his colony fall apart so easily, granted the request of local representation, though made sure to point out their decisions would have no bearing against the word of the British Crown. On May 3, 1684, the first election to the Common House of Raleigh occurred. Only landholding white men could vote, but this didn’t seem to affect the enthusiasm of the general populace. Some of the harsher taxes were repealed, and for a time, Brazil grew peaceful with Common Houses opening in towns across the colony.
Brazil remained a colony of shaky loyalty and shaky people, but strong nonetheless. Those who remained from the departures were more determined than ever to make the land their own, and would stop at nothing to see their dreams of a wealth and fantasy come true.
Wow! Some major s**t's going down in the colonies, I see. Portuguese landowners and entrepreneurs packing up and moving to Roanoco, Puritans and other religious settlers shacking up in Messipia, Brazil's government showing signs of local self-determination and proto-democracy (in the modern sense, I mean), just all kinds of cool stuff .
I wonder if things in Europe through the next century will mean more changes for the New World colonies (the British ones if nothing else), what do you think? I did notice that Brazil's immigration trends seem to be shifting closer to that of Latin America funnily enough, that of adventure-seeking singles and (I assume) veterans of the Twenty Years' War. Where do you think the major sources of immigrants to Brazil would come from, just England or also elsewhere by this point?
Also, about the other colonies than Brazil, Messipia and Portuguese Roanoco. How is New France and New Spain coming along? I'd almost assume like OTL, but I'm not sure if there are any squabbles going on with, say, New Netherland or along the Great Lakes with Roanoco and/or Messipia. New Spain I don't figure being all that different, perhaps the most "normal" place at the moment by OTL comparison. Also, would Cuba be any obstacle to English settlement in Messipia given the route to be travelled, or are things between Madrid and London copacetic enough for folks to not bother with each other's shipping?
.I wonder if things in Europe through the next century will mean more changes for the New World colonies (the British ones if nothing else), what do you think? I did notice that Brazil's immigration trends seem to be shifting closer to that of Latin America funnily enough, that of adventure-seeking singles and (I assume) veterans of the Twenty Years' War. Where do you think the major sources of immigrants to Brazil would come from, just England or also elsewhere by this point?
Also, about the other colonies than Brazil, Messipia and Portuguese Roanoco. How is New France and New Spain coming along? I'd almost assume like OTL, but I'm not sure if there are any squabbles going on with, say, New Netherland or along the Great Lakes with Roanoco and/or Messipia. New Spain I don't figure being all that different, perhaps the most "normal" place at the moment by OTL comparison
. Also, would Cuba be any obstacle to English settlement in Messipia given the route to be travelled, or are things between Madrid and London copacetic enough for folks to not bother with each other's shipping?
Witch0Winter
Banned
Unfortunately, answering most of that would only spoil the TL, so I can't really say. Though I can tell you that I'm going to be covering the North American colonies here very soon.Wow! Some major s**t's going down in the colonies, I see. Portuguese landowners and entrepreneurs packing up and moving to Roanoco, Puritans and other religious settlers shacking up in Messipia, Brazil's government showing signs of local self-determination and proto-democracy (in the modern sense, I mean), just all kinds of cool stuff
I wonder if things in Europe through the next century will mean more changes for the New World colonies (the British ones if nothing else), what do you think? I did notice that Brazil's immigration trends seem to be shifting closer to that of Latin America funnily enough, that of adventure-seeking singles and (I assume) veterans of the Twenty Years' War. Where do you think the major sources of immigrants to Brazil would come from, just England or also elsewhere by this point?
Also, about the other colonies than Brazil, Messipia and Portuguese Roanoco. How is New France and New Spain coming along? I'd almost assume like OTL, but I'm not sure if there are any squabbles going on with, say, New Netherland or along the Great Lakes with Roanoco and/or Messipia. New Spain I don't figure being all that different, perhaps the most "normal" place at the moment by OTL comparison