Where else could Khmer Rouge-esque regimes arise?

As the colony develops the Cities become very rich off of trans-Alantic trade, while the rural areas are sapped for natural resources, resulting in lot’s of pollution, environmental collapse, and large scale poverty.
Right off the bat, even this nerfed USA would probably be at least 50% urban.

The British giving America Independence during the 60’s decolonization movement (assuming it isn’t butterflied away).
How do you butterfly the transition towards self governing colonies and dominions, yet not the 60s decolonization wave.
 
Right off the bat, even this nerfed USA would probably be at least 50% urban.


How do you butterfly the transition towards self governing colonies and dominions, yet not the 60s decolonization wave.

In this timeline the British are super greedy and only care about resource extraction, America doesn’t experience any major industrialization, and thus cities only pop up on Ports along the coasts whit their sole purpose being to take American resources and ship them to Britain. While their is no major industry in America, Cottage Industry is quite common, especially for small arms. This not only makes rural Americans the super majority, but gives them the ability to establish truly awful regimes and back them up by force. Britain finds it’s self at war with a major European Power that it can only barley beat after exhausting all of it’s army. Thus decolonization follows because the British don’t have the resources to keep the Empire together. The Khmer Rouge was caused by a very destructive colonization attempt by the French that disproportionally harmed rural areas, at least in the eyes of the Khmer. To replicate a Khmer Rouge style regime in America, you have to replicate the conditions that caused the Khmer Rouge.
 
The existence of Democratic Kampchea's horrific regime, as short as it lasted, was entirely dependent on Chinese support. China viewed it as an effective threat to Vietnam's western border, so this along allowed the state to survive. Any similar regime would also need some strong benefactor to have a prolonged rule, and few such opportunities existed elsewhere in the world. There are some small possibilities:

Mexican ELZN: Chiapas state is rather poor and undeveloped, along with neighboring Oaxaco and the Yucatan states. You could suppose that the Neo-Zapatistas go down the Cambodia path by upholding Mayan nationalism and choosing totalitarianism instead of the OTL left-anarchism. Now, they could receive Cuban and Soviet support, and they would start seizing territory in the late 80s. Now they have a substantial amount of territory and they can start their genocidal rule, which would end quick with Mexican military invasion but still be brutal nonetheless.

Shining Path Peru
: Seems like if they were a bit stronger, they could be able to seize a large amount of territory. I doubt they would take Lima, Sucre or any large cities, but could hold much of the countryside as well as provincial capitals. Give them a more Cambodian ideology and they can surely start killing people fast, given their already brutal reputation. It would last longer than Zapatista rule, but would likely be ended after a year or two by intervention by the right wing military governments that surround it.

Rwanda: Make the '94 Hutu regime communist. I don't think much more is needed.

Ethiopia: Turn some of the Derg into Maoist extremists and they could start a coup, depose the Marxist Leninist OTL guys, and then try to start their own policy. Would likely end in a week after the military intervenes.

Sierra Leone: Turn the Revolutionary United Front maoist. Their ideology was vague and their behaviour was more criminal in nature than actual politics, so the territory they controlled may have it's own era of terror.

Congo: In the chaos of the Congo Crisis, as well as the Congo Wars, there were more than enough communist movements that could start implementing a nationalist ideology and start butchering everyone that opposes them. Some could even last to the modern day if isolated enough.

Laos: Why not? Make Pathet Lao's leadership more maoist and anti-vietnamese, and you could have both a "Khmer Rouge du Nord", as well as longer lasting Democratic Kampuchea regime. Actually seems like an interesting timeline, as Vietnam would face both Laos and Cambodia when it tries to remove their regimes, causing a full fledged Third Indochina War that may even result in Vietnamese defeat, with all the horror that entails.

EDIT:

Haiti: This one might last longer than KR. Make some pan-Africanist, Voodoo influenced socialist movement arise with a French educated intellectual at the helm convince Haitians that all their struggles are at the fault of the pro-american oligarch plutocracy, along with an earthquake or two, and you get a nightmarish era that would send shivers down the spine of everyone in the Caribbean for decades to come, complete with genocide of the Mulattos, Hispanics, Whites, educated urbanites, and everybody else eventually, as well as a disastrous attempt to invade the Dominican Republic.
 
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I have recently been reading about the Khmer Rouge and the atrocities they commited, and I've been wondering where a similar regime could arise. A regime similar in that it executes intellectuals, evacuates the cities and makes people work as peasants on farms, commits acts of genocide against ethnic minorities and where an extremely high amount of the population die due to the regime. Where else could this arise? Africa? Other parts of Asia? Maybe even Latin America?
Nazi Germany with more racial ideas to purify their ,race'. There had been very crazy suggestions OTL that never had been put into action. Otherwise maybe an industrialized Western country taken over by Eugenic enthusiasts between 1900 and 1920es.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Nazi Germany with more racial ideas to purify their ,race'. There had been very crazy suggestions OTL that never had been put into action. Otherwise maybe an industrialized Western country taken over by Eugenic enthusiasts between 1900 and 1920es.
You mean like America? Eugenics used to be all the rage here and it never got anywhere close to Pol Pot. In fact, eugenics would be the opposite of Pol Pot. Pol Pot targeted the intellectuals and the educated. A eugenics society would target the poor underclasses.
 
I've always assumed that to be true. The Khmer Rouge was China-backed, and, like China, they considered the peasants to be the revolutionary class. Seems pretty open-and-shut to me.

Actually no. Mao emphasized very much on industrialising China and the Chinese cities remained the heart of development.

In fact, several new cities, like Panzhihua were created for the purpose of supporting new heavy industry complexes located in remote locations.

https://www.alebo.se/panzhihua/panzhihua_pictorial.htm

https://www.alebo.se/panzhihua/panzhihua_info1.htm

Such Chinese policies ran directly contrary to the KM's hatred of cities and deindustrailization.
 
Actually no. Mao emphasized very much on industrialising China and the Chinese cities remained the heart of development.

In fact, several new cities, like Panzhihua were created for the purpose of supporting new heavy industry complexes located in remote locations.

https://www.alebo.se/panzhihua/panzhihua_pictorial.htm

https://www.alebo.se/panzhihua/panzhihua_info1.htm

Such Chinese policies ran directly contrary to the KM's hatred of cities and deindustrailization.
Yeah, Mao didn't drink his own Koolaid about peasants being the revolutionary ideal.
 
Yeah, Mao didn't drink his own Koolaid about peasants being the revolutionary ideal.

Mao didn’t consider peasantry the revolutionary ideal, but rather considered them to be the main revolutionary class (the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie and the national bourgeoisie are the four Maoist revolutionary classes). Maoism differs from Marxism as the urban proletariat is the primary revolutionary class in marx’s theory instead of the peasantry in mao’s.
 
Yeah, Mao didn't drink his own Koolaid about peasants being the revolutionary ideal.

Oh he did, to a certain extent, that is why he wanted the rural areas to participate in industrial Great Leap Forward by forging steel using backyaed furnaces.

But the aim of his (disastrous, overenthusiastic) policies remain rapid industrialization of China.
 
What are you looking for in a KR state?
Some of these suggestions kill lots of people, but don't try to turn a place back to preindustrial subsistence agriculture.

The big problem is for more than mass death you need a place that still has a large majority living at the tech level you're trying to revert to.
 
A KR-like China would have been impossible for one major reason, Mao had at least a few things grounding him to reality; Pol Pot was just absolutely fucking bat guano. He invaded a country with several times the population (Vietnam) with the rationale that Vietnam's comparative modernisation and urbanisation would make it's people less tough.

Let's put this into perspective: Vietnam had just gotten past decades of protracted conflict against multiple foreign powers (Japan, France, the US, etc) based on the sheer motivation of its armed people. Pol Pot sincerely thought that his people were so much more tough and dedicated than that, that it would make up for a fivefold difference in population as well as greater levels of military and industrial development.

A lot of time Pol Pot's atrocities are simplified as 'he killed a ton of people', and while this is absolutely true, it leaves out the sheer degree to which his decisions were absolutely inane. I think that factor - an absurdly irrational totalitarian actor - is the hardest to replicate to get a KR situation out of any other country.
I think he said something to the effect of "if every one of us can kill 30 Vietnamese, we will win this war."

Apparently, he thought Cambodia was made up of FPS main characters who can go through entire military outposts like the Biblical wrath, and not a country made of stupid, untrained militias and poor and starving peasants.

Much like the Eastern Front did to the Nazis, he found out that being 'tough' is really not good enough when the other guy can literally drown you in numbers. At least the Germans had better equipment and training than the Soviets; Pol Pot had neither.
 
You know Nazi Germany could have very well end up like the Khmer Rouge Regime. I mean they did have the idea of Blood and Soil where they sought to turn Germans into a Farmers/Peasants and wel they viewed cities as degenerate. Blood and Soil held positive views on ruralism and agrarianism. Although the idea was generally scrapped, it was still embraced by people like Heinrich Himmler and people in the SS.

Also in the Hearts Of Iron 4 Mod - The New Order, the Ordered State of Burgundy which is a state made up of parts of France is run by Himmler and the SS where they use the Blood and Soil Model. The same with Heydrich's SS Faction if he is victorious in the German Civil War, where he can turn Germany into one large concentration camp enforcing Spartanian Policies where even Aryans are subjected to similar conditions as Pol Pot's Policies.

aqSMI8y.png

Copied from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/8ovah3/development_diary_viii_götterdämmerung_part_ii/
Dev Diary VIII: Götterdämmerung - Part VI
https://i.imgur.com/iN6y5jv.jpg

Spartanism shall rise. A new, more perfect way of life begins here.

First, the economy must be restructured. A new path has to be found to make the Reich whole again, and it is up to Herr Heydrich exactly what this path will look like.

https://i.imgur.com/PokxwaF.jpg

Herr Heydrich will obviously focus on making the Reich's colonies take up the burden they have long slacked. If they are loyal, and bowed before Herr Heydrich's authority, then they will take the plan easily, with the careful guiding hand of the SS. If they are still disloyal, hiding abroad as they pretend to practice their stolen autonomy, they will be hunted, and when they are subdued they will be forced to accept this new vision. Either way, all will serve the Fatherland.

There is also some rumor in the SS that Heydrich and his inner circle may have found funding in other, less savory places. These voices claim that instead of bleeding the traitors in the Reichskommissariats dry, Herr Heydrich is actually planning on receiving his funding by taking control of, and expanding, the black market routes through the cowards in Brittany. This is obviously a lie, a disgusting thought held only by fools. Our glorious leader would never plan on such a thing.

Instead, we shall follow Herr Heydrich's planned 'Blood and Soil' initiative, a callback to the old propaganda that served us so well in the last war. The initiative focuses on the blood, the people of the colonies who do not serve the Reich despite their great obligations to their homeland, and the soil, the factories, the farms, the land. Both must be exploited in their own way.

For the blood, they may either join the military or the workforce. It is still up for debate whether the program should focus solely on those of pure German blood, or if some honorary Aryans may be permitted and allowed to prove themselves as German through the workforce or the military. If the former route is taken, then all will have to serve, with no choice in this matter, eventually leading to Herr Heydrich's 'One Child Policy', which will allow every German family to have one child to raise themselves, with all subsequent ones being considered party property, and when of an aged deemed sufficient, sent to toil in the military or the mines for their family.

In the latter route, the untermensch of the colonies will be allowed to prove their dedication to their new Fatherland thanks to the benevolent decree of their master in Germania. If they prove themselves, they may find salvation for their entire race, and they will surely work their hardest when they know their tribes and peoples are at the stake, depending on how hard they work.

For the soil, many decisions must be made. Factories must either be bought, in order to ensure the continuing function of the local economies without hiccup, or taken with force in order to prevent the Reich from ever again bending to the mongers of business. Workers must either be exported from the now pillaged homeland to help build and man these factories, or propaganda must be used to get every available worker toiling away for their homeland. Infrastructure must either be built up to equal that of the home front to encourage further development, or torn down to ensure a faster rebuilding back home. Finally, it must be decided what we shall do with the people of the colonies. Will Herr Heydrich reward those who work so hard for Germany, or will he crush them, ensuring those insidious vipers in the sands do not have a chance to bite?

https://i.imgur.com/ixCbDhx.jpg

With that finished, Herr Heydrich will also need to deal with the mess that has become German urbanization, and the people of the nation themselves.

Some things are unsalvageable, the Volkshalle for instance, the brainchild of a traitor and crumbling from the righteous bombardment Speidel and his traitors received in Germania, will need to be torn down. Likewise, the Reichstag, the scene of much of the fighting, will also need to be completely remodeled, and its facade shall be torn off to show the world our new, spartanist visage. After which, we shall march on the neighborhoods and avenues of the wealthy, and close them off for good. The mansions shall be replaced with much more practical constructions.

The monuments that fill Germania, war monuments, monuments to the workers, monuments to Hitler, monuments to German Kings and Emperors, monuments to victories and near defeats. They fill every avenue, courtyard and boulevard. Some are of insane scope and size, resources having been wasted on them when they were so dearly needed elsewhere. Herr Heydrich will have to decide whether to demolish these, and use their resources to rebuild the city and its surrounding suburbs, such as the Seelow Heights which was burned to the ground in the final offensive, or rebuild them, and build new monuments to celebrate Heydrich and the SS who saved Germany from its decadence.

When the streets have been rebuilt and cleaned, the workers will find new homes, assigned to each and every one to ensure there are no homeless and there are no poor. New, simpler architecture will ensure less supplies are used, and this plan will be copied to every single city across Germany. A new and better German city will arise, one that does not feed at the expense of the simple farmer, but one that is centered around industry, towards building a new Germany.

Further work will then need to be done on our construction plans, but also on the people. For construction, we will need to find new ways to make our buildings even more cheap than they were before. The more we remove, the more we may build. Why does the worker need an air conditioner, when the heat makes them stronger? Why do they need a television to waste their time and consume their minds when every worker receives a simple bookshelf filled with only the finest of party literature? Why even have homes at all, when all workers and their families can be housed in communal barracks like the soldiers they worship so. Why have privacy, when any good citizen has nothing to hide?

We shall bring the communities together, in a new glorious plan that ensures every man, woman and child in Germania is equal, and never let the petty restraints of wealth and class disunite Germany.

The people, like their buildings, will also be stripped down to their most bare essentials. Nobody should own jewelry, when the metals can be put towards greater uses for the Reich, nobody should own frilly, overly designed clothing, when militaristic designs and hardy and cheap fabrics can serve so much better. A new fashion will be created, one where everyone shall desire to wear the simplest, cheapest clothes, so that they can instead spend their wealth on things that matter for them and their family, or send it to the government to help fund their wonderful nation.

Finally, the industries of the Reich must be dealt with. And later, the slaves.

https://i.imgur.com/bW2Ndwx.jpg

Factories will be torn apart so their infrastructure may be redistributed, to ensure all can perform at optimal levels instead of the richest succeeding and the poor failing. To help pay for our building up of all of these industrial yards, welfare and other such things that Germans have relied on to fund their debauchery will be cut, and a new lifestyle promoted, where pitiful leisure is discouraged and more time working is held on a brilliant pedestal. Heroes of labor, our Everyday Spartans.

The slaves will also be taken out of private hands and redistributed to where the Fatherland deems necessary. No German needs a personal servant to bring them their wine when that servant can be better used in the mines or on the battlefields, and all luxuries they helped provide will also be stripped away completely.

Likewise, these lazy fools will be dragged out and put to work. Criminals will now work on a single strike, if they ever dare break our laws again, accident or no, they will find themselves in a worker's camp along with the rest. If they decide to dissent against this, then they will see what happens to the traitors in the workforce, who dare sabotage their brethren who bravely toil for their prosperity.

https://i.imgur.com/rlQN805.jpg

With the preliminary work done, further must be done to ensure slave and worker both fulfill their duties. For the slaves, it will be made clear to them that there is no way out once they are in the camps, besides work. To ensure they do not cause unrest, however, we will show our benevolence. The slaves and their guards both shall enjoy the same amount of luxuries, the same quality of barracks, for in the spartan way of life, all are equal.

Through constant inspections of each and every camp, we will ensure that the slaves have nothing to complain of, as they and their watchers both are closely scrutinized to ensure the proper way of living is upheld. Let their guards be an example to their wards, so there may possibly be hope for those fools in the future.

Outside of the camps, the workers will get the same choice their brethren in the colonies made. They will work on the assembly line or the battle line, and if they fail to do those, on the firing line. Each worker will be watched by eagle eyed commissars ensuring that all work is kept at its highest possible capacity and that all workers are giving the entirety of their effort.

And we will also make them fear. They will know if they fail to perform at their maximum capacity, they will dispensary into the night with the sound of the helicopter blades of the Gestapo's new air squadrons. The camps will be hidden away from the public eye.

Those who go in? They will not come out.
 
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trajen777

Banned
I think any country or group that comes into power that is ideologically driven (Nazi Germany - Soviet Russia - Pol Pot communist -- Mao communist (plus Xi currently ) - Rwanda (communist) -- can have this situation occur. The people in power can / will have an ability to do the ends justify the means situation and do whatever inhumane thing to people for the "better good " of the people in the future. Xi is doing this now with Muslims / Christians (more Muslims ) in China (reeducation) to create a workers state now (dictatorship under the guise of the purity of the communist party). So a STRONG ideological stance, left or right, with the people in power willing to ignore facts if it does not fit its philosophy can create such a situation where anything can happen.
 
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