Where did all the Big Timelines go?
- Thread starter Grouchio
- Start date
- Status
Unfortunately no.Research is tedious.You don't have to do as much research in fandom by comparison because you only need to read/watch all the material of a series.Writing in fandom also allows you to bend plausibility almost however you want.
Unfortunately yes.Writing in fandom also allows you to bend plausibility almost however you want.There's also infinite more ideas in fandom.In Before 1900 and After 1900,most ideas are shot down by huge blobs of writing by contrarians before they are written.
I feel this. To an extent, it does require contrarians^2 to counter those.
That, and general encouragement. I know I've played back-seat-private-cheerleader to a couple of timelines round here (both of which turned out to be a barrel of fun).
All in all, its a general problem with writing - if you get sucker-punched by a wall you shut down - and whilst its #AGoodThing to get commentary to improve, we just have to have people keep writing (or start in my case #IPromiseI'llReleaseItSomeday).
Perhaps its time to do a Timeline version of NaNoWriMo? A short timeline competition (say a single post, or ten?) could be brilliant.
Well, but the number of messages in fandom isn't coming even close to the more than 1 million in pre-1900.
Because fandom is a relatively new field here.Until recently,it was attached to ASB,which is also a rather popular field in it's own right--since it also allows reality bending powers.It's popularity was also quite recent I dare say.I also think that a lot of fandom stuff also stayed in ASB rather than all sent to fandom.I have no doubt it was linked to ASOIAF and it's tv show.I also feel that people in fandom are less willing to engage in discussions that are not actually timelines.I have asked quite a few questions in fandom without actually making a timeline,and the response was quite sparse even though it was about a rather popular franchise.I have a feeling that most people who are willing to discuss about franchise WIs are probably in spacebattles rather than in this site.From my observations,most messages in pre-1900 and post-1900 are in discussions regarding WIs rather than in timelines by contrast.
So the problem is that most people here are genuinely interested in history(due to non-members not being allowed to read the fandom and ASB stuff),but the plurality of authors generally write fandom and ASB stuff instead.
Last edited:
This isn't necessarily bad. I'm reading no timelines in post-1900, but I like to read what ObsessedNuker and Wiking have to teach me about WWII, a subject I don't know a lot about.
On the other hand, I like to give answers in pre-1900, because I have a bit of knowledge about Roman and Napoleonic times.
And I don't think the number of timelines is decreasing, at least not since I'm writing here. We have three or four TLs running in pre-1900, that's neither more nor less than usual.
As to why there are only so few, I suspect it's research. That's what broke my TLs, but I hope that I'll once have achieved enough knowledge for a realistic timeline.
Perhaps.When I first joined,the entire front page was filled by timelines.
Last edited:
Speaking of shameless plugs...
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/habsburg-resurgence.395488/
Lots of the flaws discussed earlier are in here- too many updates on the first page, people just aren't engaged enough. Though this should in no way denigrate the good people who have stood by me since late last year!
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/habsburg-resurgence.395488/
Lots of the flaws discussed earlier are in here- too many updates on the first page, people just aren't engaged enough. Though this should in no way denigrate the good people who have stood by me since late last year!
Come on, don't be so hard on yourself. You're making my favourite timeline heren and not just because of my obsession with late Habsburg Austria[-Hungary].
Take a look at our current frontpage. More than one of two threads are timelines. And the others are often discussions about possible PODs.
Ya right.This is a rare occasion.
EDIT:How many of them are actually updated?I always get a feeling that there are a lot of timelines,but they few of them are ever updated.
I have seen several TLs which had get only some updates or are just unfinished after several updates.
As a reader, I want to ad some thoughts.
As said earlier pre 1900 is the most difficult section, not only because of the research, but also because changes need longer to make a really impact, while traditional butterflies already change so much, that research needed is growing exponential.
You need to first defend unlikely but feasible events, think of all the OTL ABS-like events.
Then you can use a butterfly net and/or just push up the inertia of your world. (I hate the extreme use of butterflies. Nothing can happen like OTL the second of the POD world wide and must be either boringly predictable or can be anything short of magic, cause butterflies!)
Or you go and make a ABS without SI or ISOT (witch are rare).
Either or, set your rules and make them clear to the readers, without being to restricting to your story, nor to fictional for history aficionados.
On unfinished TLs, hideouts etc:
for me there are two sorts of TLs 'What Ifs' and 'How To Get Tos'.
Its the HTGTs who make the most problems.
The author has a target and a more or less clear path to go there, but if there are errors in the planing, and we readers are keen to point them out, it runs in to an insurmountable wall. Then or when RL happens it stops. Since all know it isn't finished everyone is disappointed.
WIs are much more forgiving, the story arch is flexible and they can find an end on many points.
On gaining an audience, feedback etc:
there are lots of threads and limited time to read.
1. Catch readers
I mostly reed updates on watched treads and only when there is nothing, I look for more by going over the new posts. When I can't decide by the headline, I do a mouse-over for the pop-up of the first lines. So, if you don't want an upfront headline or intro, why don't make a white on white notice on when, where, what and who on the first line?
You can also spawn interest by starting an open WI (not to wide or narrow), a 'What TL should I write' poll (if you come up with two or three versions) or a on topic question before, but don't forget to putt a link there when you start the real TL.
A link in your sig will not hurt either.
2. Real them in
Do not post walls of text up front! I don't want to read massive text without knowing what to expect. After your first post have patience. It is wonderful if you already have written more, but some readers like the discussion as much as the story, let them engage. If you are dropping of first page do your one comment, what do you aim at, what is the background - especially for TLs in not common known eras and areas - a TL is a good to kindle interest, but it needs fuel to ignite, tell that you're in for a longer one, that you already have more. If there is still no comment ask questions, ask members you know (guys and galls with the same interest, who you are in the same discussions who's TL you follow with input etc.) nicely and privatively to pop over for a comment. Only after some input from the outside or some likes and a day or two should you post the next instalment.
3. Keep them
Post regularly, have a plan, be flexible.
If you’re not a speed writer one must trade between speed and length, I personally prefer short frequent updates, cause I can better stay in it, than with long intermissions. The binge readers can make longer pauses on there own. I like the suggestion of a posting season. After planned or unplanned brakes a short recap may help the readers to rejoin.
Without a plan you my fritter away, not good for writer and reader.
Not every critic needs a rewrite, but some changes on the last post my be a good idea to save the TL. Do not rewrite the whole thing because it's not perfect. If you’re still in the story keep on, if not stay away for a few years. MK2 are mostly shorter than the original.
Oh wow, that got long! I hope I got it comprehensible.
As said earlier pre 1900 is the most difficult section, not only because of the research, but also because changes need longer to make a really impact, while traditional butterflies already change so much, that research needed is growing exponential.
You need to first defend unlikely but feasible events, think of all the OTL ABS-like events.
Then you can use a butterfly net and/or just push up the inertia of your world. (I hate the extreme use of butterflies. Nothing can happen like OTL the second of the POD world wide and must be either boringly predictable or can be anything short of magic, cause butterflies!)
Or you go and make a ABS without SI or ISOT (witch are rare).
Either or, set your rules and make them clear to the readers, without being to restricting to your story, nor to fictional for history aficionados.
On unfinished TLs, hideouts etc:
for me there are two sorts of TLs 'What Ifs' and 'How To Get Tos'.
Its the HTGTs who make the most problems.
The author has a target and a more or less clear path to go there, but if there are errors in the planing, and we readers are keen to point them out, it runs in to an insurmountable wall. Then or when RL happens it stops. Since all know it isn't finished everyone is disappointed.
WIs are much more forgiving, the story arch is flexible and they can find an end on many points.
On gaining an audience, feedback etc:
there are lots of threads and limited time to read.
1. Catch readers
I mostly reed updates on watched treads and only when there is nothing, I look for more by going over the new posts. When I can't decide by the headline, I do a mouse-over for the pop-up of the first lines. So, if you don't want an upfront headline or intro, why don't make a white on white notice on when, where, what and who on the first line?
You can also spawn interest by starting an open WI (not to wide or narrow), a 'What TL should I write' poll (if you come up with two or three versions) or a on topic question before, but don't forget to putt a link there when you start the real TL.
A link in your sig will not hurt either.
2. Real them in
Do not post walls of text up front! I don't want to read massive text without knowing what to expect. After your first post have patience. It is wonderful if you already have written more, but some readers like the discussion as much as the story, let them engage. If you are dropping of first page do your one comment, what do you aim at, what is the background - especially for TLs in not common known eras and areas - a TL is a good to kindle interest, but it needs fuel to ignite, tell that you're in for a longer one, that you already have more. If there is still no comment ask questions, ask members you know (guys and galls with the same interest, who you are in the same discussions who's TL you follow with input etc.) nicely and privatively to pop over for a comment. Only after some input from the outside or some likes and a day or two should you post the next instalment.
3. Keep them
Post regularly, have a plan, be flexible.
If you’re not a speed writer one must trade between speed and length, I personally prefer short frequent updates, cause I can better stay in it, than with long intermissions. The binge readers can make longer pauses on there own. I like the suggestion of a posting season. After planned or unplanned brakes a short recap may help the readers to rejoin.
Without a plan you my fritter away, not good for writer and reader.
Not every critic needs a rewrite, but some changes on the last post my be a good idea to save the TL. Do not rewrite the whole thing because it's not perfect. If you’re still in the story keep on, if not stay away for a few years. MK2 are mostly shorter than the original.
Oh wow, that got long! I hope I got it comprehensible.
I'll add my 2 cents here.
First for me is just real life and job getting in the way mostly.
Second, it just seems that not many people seem to be that interested in my TL. I've never been nominated for any turtledove things or whatever it is called; I get very few comments and other than a few people who do/have read my story, it just seems that not many people seemed interested in my TL. I have around 230,000 views (I think) so someone does look at the TL but I get very few if any comments so... it gets disappointing at least for me.
Also, making maps is hard for me. I am not very computer savvy with making maps on a computer.
I know many people like pictures and have asked me to include them but I am just so computer illiterate that it is difficult for me to take time and try to draw a map.
Once I spent an entire afternoon drawing a map only to try to upload it to here only to have it say "Error". And I couldn't upload it or try to paste something and all I got was a blank thing here on the screen.
Joho.
First for me is just real life and job getting in the way mostly.
Second, it just seems that not many people seem to be that interested in my TL. I've never been nominated for any turtledove things or whatever it is called; I get very few comments and other than a few people who do/have read my story, it just seems that not many people seemed interested in my TL. I have around 230,000 views (I think) so someone does look at the TL but I get very few if any comments so... it gets disappointing at least for me.
Also, making maps is hard for me. I am not very computer savvy with making maps on a computer.
I know many people like pictures and have asked me to include them but I am just so computer illiterate that it is difficult for me to take time and try to draw a map.
Once I spent an entire afternoon drawing a map only to try to upload it to here only to have it say "Error". And I couldn't upload it or try to paste something and all I got was a blank thing here on the screen.
Joho
.
A lot of Timelines need time to find an audience. Posting three or four chapters is not uncommon before people start giving feedback.
I'd echo what a few others have said, in that, a setup to a TL should be shorter rather than longer, as more people will take the time to read a short intro than a long wall of text.
fi11222
Banned
Let us talk about rules.
Originally, "anti-troll" rules were introduced on forums to combat the behavior of individuals who posted low quality content just for the fun of offending people. Something akin to spray painting swastikas on toilet walls. Sure, you need rules against such things.
However, I believe that a Neo-Nazi who posts a well thought out and well written TL to explain why roasting all Jews would have made the Earth a better place should be allowed to post. Of course, many people (myself included) would think that such a character is repellent and probably crazy. But I believe that this is an acceptable price to pay for quality content. AH is about exploration of possibilities. Lots of things that have been tried in History have been offensive and barbaric and crazy. How are we going to have thought provoking AH if we ban those who want to explore such things? Of course, there is a difference between depicting something awful and actually condoning it. But in practice, the boundary is always quite blurred. All AH authors more or less identify with their characters, no matter how vile. A case in point is the Draka series. Would we ban S. M. Stirling from the Forum because he sometimes seems to lean towards the Domination's viewpoint?
Personally, I think that this talk about rules hides another dirty secret: the fact that many people feel more comfortable in an environment where mediocrity is the norm.
Last edited:
No Ian bans Stirling bevause he wanted to kill all muslims or something.
And honestly it's rather disturbing that you find a TL praising jew killing that interesting.
- Status