He doesn't support them ideologically. Turner is more of an opportunist that wants to take advantage of the chaos.Geez, more Ted Turner madness. I don't think he'd be the type to support Falwell or those goons though.
When you Wish Upon a Frog (Book II of the Jim Henson at Disney saga)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
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I'd previously theorised that, if Jim and Disney make a deal with a devil(s) to chase asshole Peltz off, it'd be Eisner and Turner.
However, if Turner's involved in the game (and, by extension Columbia as a whole)... Eisner WILL NOT like the notion of being on the same team as Katz (and DEFINTELY NOT placing him in a high-ranking position) - I'm guessing that one of them walks.
Personally, I'm leaning on Katzenberg - who doesn't have much of a financial stake in the scheme (and his involvement, interestingly, isn't confirmed at this point - whilst his name's top of the list, there seems to be no indication he's actually been invited). That's my theory - Katz gets the invite, tells Peltz to piss off (not wanting to be in the same team as Eisner) and he's the devil Jim and Disney make a deal with.
(His terms would be easy - the opportunity to metaphorically dance on Eisner's grave).
However, if Turner's involved in the game (and, by extension Columbia as a whole)... Eisner WILL NOT like the notion of being on the same team as Katz (and DEFINTELY NOT placing him in a high-ranking position) - I'm guessing that one of them walks.
Personally, I'm leaning on Katzenberg - who doesn't have much of a financial stake in the scheme (and his involvement, interestingly, isn't confirmed at this point - whilst his name's top of the list, there seems to be no indication he's actually been invited). That's my theory - Katz gets the invite, tells Peltz to piss off (not wanting to be in the same team as Eisner) and he's the devil Jim and Disney make a deal with.
(His terms would be easy - the opportunity to metaphorically dance on Eisner's grave).
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For perspective, OTL Roland Emmerich made Independence Day, 2012, The Day After Tomorrow, White House Down, Moonfall and the '98 Godzilla.
I assume it's Emmerich former, Zanuck latter... he doesn't seem to have the best luck ITTL, does he? That's two movies he's done now with shit productions.
I suspect it's Emmerich for popcorn destroying, Zanuck for closer to source material.
Ted had Confederate sympathies? I don't know if I necessarily buy into that, even though he did produce Gods & Generals after Gettysburg and had some thoughts regarding ACW's origins. Which reminds me to say that The Last Full Measure should probably get made as well in this timeline.
www.baltimoresun.com
Ted Turner’s own Civil War
WASHINGTON — You can’t spend a half-hour with Ted Turner without realizing how he got where he is. Smart and funny and frank, he turns an interview into a two-way interrogation, punctua…
www.baltimoresun.com
I mean Gods and Generals is basically pro-Confederate wank propaganda.
Regardless Turner was very zealously pro-South and likely would have been against anything he viewed as attacking it, even if those attacks are ultimately primarily against the Confederacy.
I misread Carl Dean as "Dean Cain", and I thought, "Gee, that's a random pairing."
The Mouth from the South
Chapter 3: The Mouth from the South
From Dis-War Two: The Great Disney Proxy Culture War of 1998, by Taylor Johnson
In early June, The Shepherds were approached by a lawyer claiming to represent Ted Turner of Columbia Entertainment. They’d gotten word through the grapevine that there were designs on Disney, and Ted “wanted in.” They arranged a visit.
At first, The Shepherds were nonplussed. The overtly political members were upset at his liberal swing since his marriage to “Hanoi Jane”. And the Faith Faction distrusted his sudden assertions that he’d “found God.”
“Look,” he said to the assembled Shepherds. “I should have listened to you. That bitch,” meaning Fonda, whom he’d recently divorced following a cheating scandal that lit up the tabloids, “is out of her mind. The vile temptress led me astray. But I’m back in the fold.”
Still, The Shepherds had doubts. “Look,” Turner said finally. “If you don’t trust that I’ve changed my ways, then trust that I will never pass up a golden opportunity to make money, or cripple a rival.” Turner offered them a deal: he’d work separately and help them seize control of Disney. In exchange, he’d claim “the whole of MGM: logo, films old and new, studios, park rights, you name it. Even Hyperion and some pieces of NBC I like, all in exchange for my accumulated shares. And if you fail, we can talk merger or exchanges to take the debt off of you. Or I can buy up shares to put a floor under the drop.”
This latter aspect won him numerous supporters from the Fiscal Faction. It was exactly what they’d asked for: top cover. Even with a minority stake they could still conceivably steer Disney and make some money, assuming they could dump some of the burdensome short-term debt and avoid margin calls.
The Faith Faction, though still dubious of his claims to salvation, still saw in him “an unwitting instrument of God,” and thus agreed to the deal.
The Shepherds by this point had already launched their strike, quickly acquiring 3.2% of the shares by the end of June through a pooling of liquid resources the various members gained through margin buys, short term loans, and liquidation of assets. Turner, however, struck out on his own. “If I’m seen as a part of this coalition,” he told them, “It will limit my flexibility. I have to be seen as neutral.”
Disney reacted to the sudden uptick in stock sales with confusion. Why was someone making a big play now? They weren’t particularly vulnerable or undervalued. Instead, accusations flew between the Disneys, each of whom suspected that the other was trying to increase their stake vis-à-vis the other. Stanley Gold openly admitted that he had met with a representative from Peltz, but claimed that he told them Roy wasn’t interested, calling it “a very short meeting.” But Diane Disney Miller, who’d never trusted Gold, was skeptical and met with Retlaw’s legal and financial advisors to consider their options. Henson ran interference and tried to calm both sides, working to arbitrate the meeting, but he could tell that there was growing mutual suspicion, telling his daughter Cheryl “the old wounds are opening up, and it’s getting harder to stem the bleeding.”
Instead, he organized a stock-buying rally: he, both Disney factions, and other members of the Round Table would work together to buy up shares themselves and improve their position, and the board agreed to initiate stock buybacks through the company in a Poison Pill strategy. Spielberg and George Lucas were on board, the latter in a good financial situation with the ongoing success of the latest Star Wars film in particular. Bass regretfully declined, citing internal financial issues and Marriott preferred not to buy more stock, though he did pledge his support to the current executives, citing his “meteoric return on investment” under their leadership. GE simply stated that it would act “in accordance with the best interests of our shareholders,” which was interpreted as a statement of neutrality in any coming battles.
Meanwhile, Peltz’s contacts had worked their sinister magic on Sid Bass, who was facing direct challenges on the Bass Brothers board of directors and facing margin calls on several of his renewable energy stocks. Bass promised to consider their offers.
Turner took advantage of liquid funds following the recent successes in the studios, CBS, and parks, and snagged a 5% stake in Disney.
The stocks kept selling and the price kept climbing. Notably absent from the scramble, for the most part, were the Arbitragers or “Arbs”, who’d been a notable and unpredictable presence in the 1984 hostile takeover attempt. Infamous Arb and Greenmailer Saul Steinberg, upon being asked about his plans, simply called it a “culture clash proxy fight by activist investors” and “of no personal advantage for me.” Other Arbs indicated similar position. There was no likelihood of any takeover here, perhaps just some change in board members, and any potential spoils were hardly worth the price of gaining a notable stake. A few happily made some minor very-short-term investments just for “day trading” on the rising price, and a few took shorts in anticipation of an eventual price drop, but there would be no “Piggie vs. Piggie” moments in this drama.
Even so, by the middle of July, with stock prices breaking $100/share, The Good Shepherd Group filed a Schedule 13D with the SEC claiming 6% of Outstanding shares as “an investment”, on top of the 5% now controlled by rival Columbia Entertainment. Together they would have influence, though they were not yet an immediate existential threat.
The big question for the Disney board became: what is the plan here?
Stocks at a Glance: Walt Disney Entertainment (DIS)
July 19th, 1998
Stock price: $101.44
Major Shareholders: Henson family (19.3%), Roy E. Disney family (12.8%), Disney-Miller family (12.9%), General Electric (10.5%), Bass Brothers (8.7%), Bill Marriott (5.7%), Amblin Entertainment (1.3%), Apple Comp. (0.7%), Lucasfilm Ltd. (0.7%), Suspected “Knights Errant” (4.9%), Shepherd Group (6.4%), Columbia Entertainment (5%), Other (11.1%; ~8% Institutional Investors)
Outstanding shares: 498.6 million
From Dis-War Two: The Great Disney Proxy Culture War of 1998, by Taylor Johnson
In early June, The Shepherds were approached by a lawyer claiming to represent Ted Turner of Columbia Entertainment. They’d gotten word through the grapevine that there were designs on Disney, and Ted “wanted in.” They arranged a visit.
At first, The Shepherds were nonplussed. The overtly political members were upset at his liberal swing since his marriage to “Hanoi Jane”. And the Faith Faction distrusted his sudden assertions that he’d “found God.”
“Look,” he said to the assembled Shepherds. “I should have listened to you. That bitch,” meaning Fonda, whom he’d recently divorced following a cheating scandal that lit up the tabloids, “is out of her mind. The vile temptress led me astray. But I’m back in the fold.”
Still, The Shepherds had doubts. “Look,” Turner said finally. “If you don’t trust that I’ve changed my ways, then trust that I will never pass up a golden opportunity to make money, or cripple a rival.” Turner offered them a deal: he’d work separately and help them seize control of Disney. In exchange, he’d claim “the whole of MGM: logo, films old and new, studios, park rights, you name it. Even Hyperion and some pieces of NBC I like, all in exchange for my accumulated shares. And if you fail, we can talk merger or exchanges to take the debt off of you. Or I can buy up shares to put a floor under the drop.”
This latter aspect won him numerous supporters from the Fiscal Faction. It was exactly what they’d asked for: top cover. Even with a minority stake they could still conceivably steer Disney and make some money, assuming they could dump some of the burdensome short-term debt and avoid margin calls.
The Faith Faction, though still dubious of his claims to salvation, still saw in him “an unwitting instrument of God,” and thus agreed to the deal.
The Shepherds by this point had already launched their strike, quickly acquiring 3.2% of the shares by the end of June through a pooling of liquid resources the various members gained through margin buys, short term loans, and liquidation of assets. Turner, however, struck out on his own. “If I’m seen as a part of this coalition,” he told them, “It will limit my flexibility. I have to be seen as neutral.”
Disney reacted to the sudden uptick in stock sales with confusion. Why was someone making a big play now? They weren’t particularly vulnerable or undervalued. Instead, accusations flew between the Disneys, each of whom suspected that the other was trying to increase their stake vis-à-vis the other. Stanley Gold openly admitted that he had met with a representative from Peltz, but claimed that he told them Roy wasn’t interested, calling it “a very short meeting.” But Diane Disney Miller, who’d never trusted Gold, was skeptical and met with Retlaw’s legal and financial advisors to consider their options. Henson ran interference and tried to calm both sides, working to arbitrate the meeting, but he could tell that there was growing mutual suspicion, telling his daughter Cheryl “the old wounds are opening up, and it’s getting harder to stem the bleeding.”
Instead, he organized a stock-buying rally: he, both Disney factions, and other members of the Round Table would work together to buy up shares themselves and improve their position, and the board agreed to initiate stock buybacks through the company in a Poison Pill strategy. Spielberg and George Lucas were on board, the latter in a good financial situation with the ongoing success of the latest Star Wars film in particular. Bass regretfully declined, citing internal financial issues and Marriott preferred not to buy more stock, though he did pledge his support to the current executives, citing his “meteoric return on investment” under their leadership. GE simply stated that it would act “in accordance with the best interests of our shareholders,” which was interpreted as a statement of neutrality in any coming battles.
Meanwhile, Peltz’s contacts had worked their sinister magic on Sid Bass, who was facing direct challenges on the Bass Brothers board of directors and facing margin calls on several of his renewable energy stocks. Bass promised to consider their offers.
Turner took advantage of liquid funds following the recent successes in the studios, CBS, and parks, and snagged a 5% stake in Disney.
The stocks kept selling and the price kept climbing. Notably absent from the scramble, for the most part, were the Arbitragers or “Arbs”, who’d been a notable and unpredictable presence in the 1984 hostile takeover attempt. Infamous Arb and Greenmailer Saul Steinberg, upon being asked about his plans, simply called it a “culture clash proxy fight by activist investors” and “of no personal advantage for me.” Other Arbs indicated similar position. There was no likelihood of any takeover here, perhaps just some change in board members, and any potential spoils were hardly worth the price of gaining a notable stake. A few happily made some minor very-short-term investments just for “day trading” on the rising price, and a few took shorts in anticipation of an eventual price drop, but there would be no “Piggie vs. Piggie” moments in this drama.
Even so, by the middle of July, with stock prices breaking $100/share, The Good Shepherd Group filed a Schedule 13D with the SEC claiming 6% of Outstanding shares as “an investment”, on top of the 5% now controlled by rival Columbia Entertainment. Together they would have influence, though they were not yet an immediate existential threat.
The big question for the Disney board became: what is the plan here?
Stocks at a Glance: Walt Disney Entertainment (DIS)
July 19th, 1998
Stock price: $101.44
Major Shareholders: Henson family (19.3%), Roy E. Disney family (12.8%), Disney-Miller family (12.9%), General Electric (10.5%), Bass Brothers (8.7%), Bill Marriott (5.7%), Amblin Entertainment (1.3%), Apple Comp. (0.7%), Lucasfilm Ltd. (0.7%), Suspected “Knights Errant” (4.9%), Shepherd Group (6.4%), Columbia Entertainment (5%), Other (11.1%; ~8% Institutional Investors)
Outstanding shares: 498.6 million
Shit... this is getting bad. I don't think chasing them off is becoming a valid option anymore.
Jim will have to strengthen his position somehow in order to cut a deal with these devils (in a way that doesn't lead to him being exiled) - and I'd say the key lies in the creatives. If people like Tim Burton, Spielberg and Lucas come out in his favour and say, "If Jim goes, we do", I think that's going to strengthen his position.
To chase them off, however... it's likely that Fox (on Lisa Henson and George Lucas' behalf) will shore things up. However, if it comes down to dealing with the devil...
I think Katzenberg is pretty much "out" of the scheme by this point, since Turner's going to be aware that Eisner WILL NOT like the notion of being on the same team as him - and given his board view the plan as doomed to failure anyway, Eisner will probably kick Turner out.
Would Katz jump on the "chasing off Peltz, Turner and co" scheme just to rub it in Eisner's face again? He probably would.
Jim will have to strengthen his position somehow in order to cut a deal with these devils (in a way that doesn't lead to him being exiled) - and I'd say the key lies in the creatives. If people like Tim Burton, Spielberg and Lucas come out in his favour and say, "If Jim goes, we do", I think that's going to strengthen his position.
To chase them off, however... it's likely that Fox (on Lisa Henson and George Lucas' behalf) will shore things up. However, if it comes down to dealing with the devil...
I think Katzenberg is pretty much "out" of the scheme by this point, since Turner's going to be aware that Eisner WILL NOT like the notion of being on the same team as him - and given his board view the plan as doomed to failure anyway, Eisner will probably kick Turner out.
Would Katz jump on the "chasing off Peltz, Turner and co" scheme just to rub it in Eisner's face again? He probably would.
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I was willing to put up with Peltz and Falwell, right up until Columbia bought 5 percent of Disney. That's when I knew for sure that they need help, and fast.
Disney isn't failing. The company has done a lot worse under Card Walker, it's just that the buyers are disgruntled people that dislike Jim Henson's continued tenure at the company (far-right firebrands, businessmen that don't like Jim/Roy's "Dream before the Scheme", and others that want a piece of Disney's assets).
Huh seems like a rather slow burn for now, while Peltz and friends are pulling off their plans successfully it's not the immediate threat to the Disney board they have hoped.
This certainly is not a Kingdom Acquisition 2.0, more like a mild stock reshuffling. I wonder if this will men hat Turner will ironically be the only one walking out of this with any real gain.
Also btw @Geekhis Khan I love how this development is bringing our unofficial deuteragonist Michael Eisner closer to Disney and by proxy Jim Henson.
This certainly is not a Kingdom Acquisition 2.0, more like a mild stock reshuffling. I wonder if this will men hat Turner will ironically be the only one walking out of this with any real gain.
Also btw @Geekhis Khan I love how this development is bringing our unofficial deuteragonist Michael Eisner closer to Disney and by proxy Jim Henson.
Ho boy, here we go. More fun to be had in the Nineties. Not sure what Disney could do unless they can get someone to check on the vultures' backgrounds and find a weak point. One of them (probably Falwell) did or is doing something potentially illegal that could be found out and sink them.
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