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I'm not expecting a ton of movies/shows to be the same, since it is the 90s and we're entering the "Fiction Zone" real fast, but I'm hoping that some of the Disney classics like Mulan and Treasure Planet go through relatively unscathed.

One Disney project I can see going through (in a fashion) is Beauty and the Beast, which, like the Little Mermaid, had been in Production Hell for quite a long time.

I can also see equivalents to Tangled and Frozen, since they were projects that had been floating around for quite a while (since Walt's day even), as well as, surprisingly, Wreck-It-Ralph, which Disney had apparently been talking about since the late 1980s.

So, with those, it's not really a matter of "if" they end up taken off the shelf, it's "when" - of course, they're probably going to be much different from OTL.

I'd tread lightly on killing someone that survives OTL if they don't have a preexisting condition, since they could go on to do some production or event in the future. But then again, I guess it'd be too unrealistic if a significant amount of people survive where they did not OTL like Princess Diana.

I'd say people who had near misses in accidents would be the easiest ones to kill - just change one event so it ended up being fatal.

Suicide attempts are a bit more difficult - certainly TTL's death of Corey Feldman (which pretty much everyone knows is most likely suicide) would get people more tuned into mental health.
 
Yeah, I mean, that's the case Disney is having to face now IRL. Heck, OG Winnie the Pooh is now public domain.

Someone told me that this is actually a bit iffy, because the Berne Convention, which is what makes copyright international, which is the only way it can work at all in the internet era, says that copyright in a Berne signatory country lasts as long as it would in the country of origin, if it's also a Berne signatory and would be longer.

And under British copyright law, Winnie-the-Pooh's copyright lapses in 2026 (70 years after the death of the author.)

And that's just the text. If this is right, then the copyright on E H Shepherd's illustrations will lapse in 2046.

The Great Retro-Animation Escape-Premise Controversy (1993)
Post from Animation Nation Netlog, by Mary Mel O’Dea, May 5th, 2013

Oh, goodness. I hadn't realised how much of Animaniacs wasn't Spielberg, so I wasn't expecting two versions of it ITTL. That's brilliant.

I guess that it doesn't exists in this Timeline, however I'm not sure how involved Spielberg was with Tiny Toons.

Something called The Tiny Toons was mentioned in the previous thread, in the chapter "TV Animation Strikes Back", although it wasn't revealed how close it was to the OTL version. But reading the "development" section of the Wikipedia entry, the basic premise was proposed long before Spielberg was involved, but the specifics were worked out between Spielberg, Tom Ruegger (him again?) and writer Wayne Kaatz. How different it would be without Spielberg, but with Reugger and probably Kaatz is pretty open.
 
What will Mortimer and Mickey relations be like?
I can see Mortimer trying to get his younger brother to loosen up, while Mickey tries to tone down Mort's wackiness.

I like the Wise Acres idea.

Minerva Mink, hopefully she lasts more than two segments.

Didn't see Rita and Runt mentioned, a shame to lose Rita's songs.
 
and the infamous “Fingerprints” joke.
With no female Warner sibling who makes the "finger Prince"? Whoever it is probably becomes a gay icon.
I am now wondering what the 'drug war' under Gore will look like
Probably the same as it did under Clinton.
Is it possible medical cannabis might be legalised? More treatment for addicts? Dutch style legalised cafes?
Have all the Conservatives in America disappeared or at the very least left leaning Canadian-style Conservatives?
Do they bring in characters like Shrek or some of the Japanese partnership characters as well?
I doubt it because Disney doesn't own the IPs but the may make joking references to them.
How are things going with UK animation ITTL? Dangermouse, Trapdoor, Count Duckula, etc.
He most likely will have to rely on a guest writer for UK tv from now on, especially after the Dr. Who fiasco.
Does he have two tentacle companions?
I don't get the reference.
Speaking of tentacles, is Lucas Arts Games a thing in this Timeline?
I imagine that it does seeing how they were founded in1982, so too soon for butterflies to affect it.
as well as, surprisingly, Wreck-It-Ralph, which Disney had apparently been talking about since the late 1980s.
If you had said the early 1980s I'd be happier but the late 1980s seems to close to the fiction for my comfort.
I'd say people who had near misses in accidents would be the easiest ones to kill - just change one event so it ended up being fatal.
I did try to bring this up back when the TL was still in the late 1980s:
 
Have all the Conservatives in America disappeared or at the very least left leaning Canadian-style Conservatives?
Yeah all the conservatives exploded on January 20th, very tragic.

No but seriously, I can't see it happening too. Maybe Drug use will be decriminalised sooner ITTL, so probably less frisking because of alleged marijuana odor and maybe the conversation will be more about helping people to stay clean then punishing the dealers, but no medical marijuana or dutch style coffee shops yet.

Especially since I'm sure that even the Dutch won't legalise weed until a decade from now.

I don't get the reference.
It was a reference to Day if the Tentacle, since Doctor How uses a John to travel in time.
 
Out of the Vault sounds like an another step in the right direction for revolutionizing Mickey Mouse's image, on top of acquiring Oswald and Ortensia in the process! Honestly, this Disney clearly knows how to use both of them from the get go, so I can expect Oswald and Ortensia to show up in further Disney productions, especially a possible Out of the Vault reboot that might resemble the modern Mickey Mouse shorts OTL. However, I'm kinda surprised that they went with the Mortimer name since there's already a Mortimer Mouse in the Mickey Mouse canon. Maybe Disney fans could call him Morty instead?

Animaniacs seems to be the same aside from them being Platypuses, so I'm glad that they're still around ITTL, and with a full blown rivalry with the MOO Crew no doubt! I can already see a lot of discourse happening in the future between which 90s series is better on the Net, but no one will ever have a definitive answer because both are similar, yet are amazing.

Felix the Cat is the cherry on top of what's already a great development for American animation. Can't wait to see where this goes next, Geekhis!

I am now wondering what the 'drug war' under Gore will look like? Is it possible medical cannabis might be legalised? More treatment for addicts? Dutch style legalised cafes?
Seems unlikely, tbh. Al Gore was pretty wishy-washy into medical marijuana into the 2000s and still approved of the more punitive measures against drug users in prison. It's going to require a stark change in the public consciousness when it comes to the effectiveness of medical marijuana and decriminalization, which is easier said than done even with the changes ITTL. At the very least, Al Gore should be open to rehabilitation as a measure in drug treatment, something that John Henson could help out with in terms of politics.

One Disney project I can see going through (in a fashion) is Beauty and the Beast, which, like the Little Mermaid, had been in Production Hell for quite a long time.

I can also see equivalents to Tangled and Frozen, since they were projects that had been floating around for quite a while (since Walt's day even), as well as, surprisingly, Wreck-It-Ralph, which Disney had apparently been talking about since the late 1980s.
Beauty and the Beast will definitely be different from the OTL version since Ashman is no longer alive ITTL. It's the issue of picking which elements work for the film since they went through many story drafts that all failed.

Tangled, Frozen, and Wreck-It-Ralph are also likely to happen but I won't be surprised if they will be entirely different from their OTL versions simply due to butterflies.

I'd say people who had near misses in accidents would be the easiest ones to kill - just change one event so it ended up being fatal.
Yeah, that's easy to change. But I was thinking of just random illnesses or accidents, which are much harder to justify.
 
Out of the Vault sounds like an another step in the right direction for revolutionizing Mickey Mouse's image
To be fair it's not revolutionizing Mickey's image but rather introducing a new older brother for Mickey.
However, I'm kinda surprised that they went with the Mortimer name since there's already a Mortimer Mouse in the Mickey Mouse canon. Maybe Disney fans could call him Morty instead?
Could be that @Geekhis Khan was unfamiliar with the OTL Mortimer Mouse. Also the following pic does provide a few possible retcons for this Mortimer:
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and still approved of the more punitive measures against drug users in prison.
Which just goes to show how far right American politics is. I mean the more I watch J.J. McCullough the more I think Canadian Conservatives are politically closer to American Liberals than American Conservatives.
Beauty and the Beast will definitely be different from the OTL version since Ashman is no longer alive ITTL. It's the issue of picking which elements work for the film since they went through many story drafts that all failed.
With my Muppets Treasure Planet being shot down how about a Muppets Beauty and the Beast?
 
To be fair it's not revolutionizing Mickey's image but rather introducing a new older brother for Mickey.
Hmmmmm...from an ITTL perspective that's probably the case. Hopefully they change the design a bit if it's a new character and not just a version of Mickey. Maybe that's why "Morty Mouse" could be an appropriate name for the character?

Which just goes to show how far right American politics is. I mean the more I watch J.J. McCullough the more I think Canadian Conservatives are politically closer to American Liberals than American Conservatives.
Yeah, no surprise there. It's why I'm not pushing too hard into legalizing drugs, although I can see it be slightly accelerated with Al Gore as President.

With my Muppets Treasure Planet being shot down how about a Muppets Beauty and the Beast?
I'd rather have Muppets Rapunzel since I think it could work better as a comedic parody film than the more sombre Beauty and the Beast.
 
If you had said the early 1980s I'd be happier but the late 1980s seems to close to the fiction for my comfort.

Keep in mind we don't know the exact circumstances it was postulated in - and, let's be honest here, the premise isn't exactly a hard one to come up with.

But I can see what you are saying - movies based on original ideas are harder to justify than movies based on pre-existing stories. Mulan falls into the latter because it's based on a pre-existing poem - the Song of Fa Mulan.

Since Aladdin exists ITTL, films like a Greek mythology film, Mulan and to a much lesser extent, Moana are easier to imagine existing - as it's partially because of Aladdin that Hercules and Mulan exist OTL.

Beauty and the Beast, Frozen and Tangled were all based on projects that had been discussed for many years - in some cases, as far back as Walt's day. So, with those, it's not really a matter of "if" they end up defrosted, it's "when".

Not if they do it similar to Muppets Christmas Carol and Muppets Treasure Island.

I think I'd prefer to see Muppet Guillver's Travels (as suggested by @Denliner somewhere) - the reason why is it forms an interesting little trilogy with Muppet Treasure Island and Muppet Christmas Carol, being based on a famous piece of 19th century literature.

Call it something like the Muppets Great British Literature Trilogy and we end up with the notion of a whole generation of kids only being familiar with any of those classic stories through the Muppets.
 
In the News... (Brought to you by Mood Whiplash mascara)
Gore, Foley announce Bipartisan Commission on Health Care Policy
Washington Post, February 23rd, 1993


President Gore, seated with a bipartisan collection of Congressional leaders and health-care advisers in the Roosevelt Room, announced the formation of a Bipartisan[1] Congressional Commission on Health Care Reform. “If there’s one thing that I heard again and again campaigning for this office it’s that our health care system is in crisis, a crisis that hits at the heart of every American family. We have Americans weighing bankruptcy because a parent has Alzheimer's, hundreds of thousands of Americans losing their coverage every month, small businesses having to deny their employees’ health care because they cannot afford it, and even some businesses who’ve provided health care for years suddenly having to tell trusted employees that their coverage will be cancelled. We must act now,” the President said.

The President thanked the leaders of both parties in Congress for agreeing to work together to get a comprehensive system acceptable to both sides. Speaker Tom Foley and Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell expressed optimism that the blueprint for reform could be out of the Commission by the end of April, the end of Gore’s first 100 days, with an eye on ultimate passage by the spring of 1994. Senate Minority Leader Bob Dole and House Minority Leader Bob Michel focused their statements on the need to shape the final plan such that the American people see little in the way of disruption or cost increases. Dole mentioned the possibility of an individual mandate, requiring all Americans to pay for private insurance to keep costs down, which was a proposal recently promoted by Rhode Island’s Republican Senator John Chaffee, a Senator likely to sit on the Commission. This bipartisan agreement is not surprising considering a recent Gallup poll of members of Congress, which found that two-thirds felt that some sort of healthcare reform should be completed this term, reflecting a rare cross-ideological consensus[2].

Some prominent conservatives, however, have already expressed outrage at Congressional Republicans who have agreed to participate. “We got creamed in ‘90 and ‘92 because we keep giving into the liberals rather than fighting for our principles,” said former House Minority Whip and current Chairman of the American Conservative Union Newt Gingrich. Conservative firebrand Patrick Buchanan lashed out on Crossfire, “Any Republican who helps with this socialist takeover of healthcare is betraying the conservative cause. Red-blooded conservatives should be ready to launch a primary challenge against those RINOS. And if Bob Dole thinks he can throw the Republican cause under the bus and run for President, then he has another thing coming.”[3] Despite these vocal opponents, polling suggests….Cont’d on A6.



Explosion rocks World Trade Center

Authorities seeking information on event

Terrorism suspected

The New York Times, March 19th, 1993


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New York – An explosion in the basement parking lot of the North Tower of the World Trade Center has damaged the building, killing half a dozen and injuring dozens. Occurring at precisely 12:24 PM, the explosion is being investigated as a terrorist attack[4].

So far, no one has claimed responsibility and the FBI is asking for any information that can help find the perpetrators. NYPD Captain…Cont’d on A2.



Waco Siege ends in Deadly Raid

Dozens dead in gunfight, mass suicide, including children

Congress demanding answers for what “went wrong”

The Dallas Morning News, April 6th, 1993


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Waco, TX – a prolonged, news-making FBI siege of the Branch Davidian compound near Waco ended in a massive gunfight between Federal and State law enforcement and members of the Branch Davidian group, which many have called a “cult”. Further deaths, many of them children, appear to have been the result of a mass suicide, with poisonous substances detected in the communion wine. Among the dead is David Koresh, the leader of the Branch Davidians and self-ascribed Messiah, who was wanted by Federal agents on numerous charges of Statutory Rape and Sexual Assault of minors, Child Endangerment, and firearms charges[5].

The raid, which began in the early dawn on the 5th, was quickly met by heavy firepower from the well-armed Davidians. The Federal agents responded with deadly force in a prolonged firefight that led to the deaths of six federal agents and appears to have led to the deaths of up to a dozen Davidians, some of them women and teenagers. Up to eighty others, many of them children, were found dead in an inner chamber alongside Koresh, the result of an apparent poisoning in what Federal agents are calling a “mass murder-suicide”.

Events began earlier this year when Federal agents responded to numerous allegations that Koresh was holding minors against their will and forcing them into marriages. The local Waco Tribune-Herald began publishing a series of articles called “The Sinful Messiah” alleging…Cont’d on A2.



Gore Appoints Lt. Gen. Johnson to head UNOSOM
Military Times, March 12th, 1993


LtGenRbtBJohnston_USMC.jpg


President Al Gore today appointed Marine Corps Lieutenant General Robert B. Johnson[6] to head the United Nations Operations in Somalia (UNOSOM II), taking over for Ismat Kittani from Iraq. Johnson will receive a brevet promotion to full General while in the billet. Acting General Johnson, most recently the Commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force (I MEF), brings a long and distinguished career with extensive combat experience to the role. As I MEF Commander, he oversaw USMC Operations in Somalia and brings directly applicable ground experience to the position. As UNOSOM head, Johnson will advise UN Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali and oversee combined military operations in the war-torn region.

The announcement was met with some surprise, as Johnson only recently put on his third star in August of 1991, but few have questioned Acting General Johnson’s C.V., which includes serving as Gen. Schwarzkopf’s Chief of Staff during Operation Desert Sword. His distinguished career began in 1965, deploying to Vietnam with the 1st Marine Brigade to…Cont’d on Pg. 2.



USR Tensions Remain as Gorbachev, Baltic Leaders sign Vilnius Accords

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and USR agree to terms on Kaliningrad Transit, Soviet Military withdrawal

Ongoing USR disagreement over Sovereign State status for Autonomous Provinces

Rising ethnic tensions in Caucuses threaten to spill over into wider regional conflict

The Times of London, April 14th, 1993


Vilnius, Lithuania – Union of Sovereign Republics President Mikhail Gorbachev today signed the Vilnius Accords with the leaders of the Baltic Republics, including Prime Minister Mart Laar of Estonia, Prime Minister Ivars Godmanis of Latvia, and Prime Minister Bronislovas Lubys of Lithuania. The Accords, brokered by French President François Mitterrand, German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, UK Prime Minister Neil Kinnock, and US President Albert Gore, address several key points, such as the official USR recognition of the independence of the three nations, the phased removal of all USR military from the three nations, and the establishment of official transit licenses and corridors for the transit of USR citizens and non-military supplies across Lithuania between Kaliningrad and the USR heartland. The Accords also spell out new customs and duty arrangements and establish “a principle of peace and non-aggression” between the four nations.

The Accords come on the heels of ongoing talks among the former Warsaw Pact Soviet satellite states over trade, customs, and mutual defense, with several of the new republics (including all three Baltic states and neighboring Poland) openly courting membership in the NATO alliance, this latter aspect openly opposed by Moscow. The recent formation of the Central European Free Trade Agreement (CEFTA) by Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Slovenia, seen by many as a precursor for these nations to enter the European Economic Community, points to larger “western leaning” tendencies among the former Warsaw Pact nations and away from Moscow.

For the USR, the Accords represent an easing of tensions with the three former Soviet Republics, but other issues remain for the struggling Soviet successor federation. Ongoing protests and sectarian conflict within the Trans-Caucuses Region continue to threaten to set the whole region aflame, with ethnic unrest exploding into bloodshed in the former Soviet Republic turned independent nation of Georgia, where the ethnic Georgian majority clashed violently with its Abkhazian and Ossetian minorities. Within the USR itself, pro-independence protests in the region, in particular within the State of Azerbaijan and the Autonomous Republics (AR) of Chechnya-Ingush, North Ossetia-Alania, and Dagestan, have turned violent in recent months.

The announcement last month by the USR Duma that the ARs will be granted additional internal sovereignty was met with mixed reactions as many of the AR governments continue to push for full State status while the existing States, particularly the larger States of Kazakhstan, Belarus, and The Ukraine, oppose this move, which they see as diluting their own influence. Chechno-Ingushian Provincial President Dzhokhar Dudayev again reiterated his calls for full Sovereign State status for his region while the leaders of the AR of North Ossetia-Alania have called for active USR support for South Ossetian rebels in Georgia, with some calling for outright annexation of the restive Georgian province into their AR.

And yet the USR has its hands full in the region as ethic violence again erupted in the heavily ethnically Armenian Autonomous Oblast of Nagorno-Karabakh within the State of Azerbaijan, along with sporadic border clashes with the former Soviet Republic of Armenia, which Azerbaijanis accuse of supporting uprisings in Nagorno-Karabakh. The Autonomous Oblast, meanwhile, has formally petitioned for Autonomous Province status (a move opposed by the Azerbaijani State government) while Armenia has suggested that the Oblast should be transferred directly to them along with a transit corridor, further stoking unrest. Meanwhile, protests in Baku demanding full Azerbaijani independence have flared in recent weeks, with the secessionist movements in Azerbaijan, Dagestan, and Chechnya increasingly making common cause, threatening to spill into a larger insurrection that threatens to cut Moscow off from critical petroleum reserves in the Caspian Sea region.

Further east, a major refugee crisis is engulfing the Central Asian States of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Kyrgyzstan, spilling over from the ongoing sectarian and tribal conflict in neighboring Afghanistan. This has ratcheted up lingering ethnic tensions among the four States, a situation complicated by disagreements over water rights, allowable flow rates, irrigation allowances, and holding volumes stemming from the region’s many dams. So far, the conflict has mostly remained verbal, but lingering border disputes complicate matters and secessionist movements have begun to gain ground in all five Central Asian States. US President Al Gore specifically called on USR President Gorbachev to better secure the many nuclear arms in the area, particularly within the neighboring Sovereign State of Kazakhstan, which some experts fear may become the targets of terrorism.

Further conflict arose in the distant Russian Far East, where a low-level Chinese official made a speech in the Chinese city of Harbin that appeared to some to suggest that the region he called Outer Manchuria, which contains the strategically and economically critical Russian city of Vladivostok, was a traditional part of China. Small protests in the Russian Far East by members of the Manchu and Han ethnic minority groups demanding either increased regional autonomy or outright “repatriation” with China were broken up by police, but may hint at the start of secessionist movements in that critical region or signal the start of a flare up in long-dormant Sino-Russian border disputes.

“The former Soviet Union is in a challenging position,” said US Secretary of State Zbigniew Brzezinski. “The centrifugal force of disunion, largely along ethnic and religious lines, has so far been balanced by the internal power of the USR Federal Government and military, which is largely dominated by the Russian majority and their Belarussian and Ukrainian cousins. The President takes the situation very seriously and is working closely with his cabinet and the Joint Chiefs to determine the best way to ensure the continued safety of US citizens and our regional allies.”

Whether the Vilnius Accords spell the beginning of greater regional stability or the end remains to be seen, but the peaceful resolution to one of the many ongoing post-Soviet sticking points gives many hope that the many challenges facing the former USSR can be resolved in similarly peaceful means. To assist in matters, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has pledged $2.5 billion in aid to help shore up teetering pension plans and help restructure Moscow’s debt.

“The US Government is very much hoping for ongoing constructive dialog with the USR and its neighbors,” said Brzezinski, “and we will do our part to help spread peace, prosperity, and democratic values in the region.”



Disney Legend Donn Tatum Passes Away at 80
The Orange County Register, May 14th, 1993


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In a sad day for Disney fans, Disney Legend and Chairman Emeritus Donn Tatum passed after a long battle with Cancer. He was 80 years old. “Donn was a great man,” said Disney CEO Ron Miller, “and a great friend, both to me and to my father-in-law Walt. His vision and leadership helped steer Disney through a difficult time following Walt’s untimely passing, and he will be sorely missed.”

Donn Tatum’s Disney career began in 1956 when he became a production business manager working for Roy O. Disney. He quickly advanced through the managerial side of the company, becoming Chairman and CEO in 1971 following the death of Roy. He retired from both positions in 1976 in favor of E. Cardon Walker, and then retired from the Disney Board of Directors in 1984 following the management shakeup in the aftermath of Robert Holmes à Court’s failed hostile takeover bid, remaining a non-voting “Associate Director”. He was one of the first living people to receive the honor of being formally declared a “Disney Legend”.

Tatum oversaw a tumultuous time in the company’s storied history, an “interregnum” of sorts between the death of Walt and the rise of the current leadership. Tatum had a tumultuous relationship with Walker (a Walt protégé) and then later with current Acting Chairman Jim Henson, with whom he had numerous creative differences. Still, both men expressed a deep and abiding love and respect for Tatum, with Walker calling him “a man of character and integrity” and Henson calling him “a truly wonderful man…full of decency and honor, who was an excellent steward of Walt’s vision and legacy.”

Tatum is survived by his wife Vernette Ripley Tatum of 56 years and his three sons, Frederic, Donn Jr. and Forbes, and two daughters, Vernette and Melantha. He has eight grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.

Acting Chairman Jim Henson has announced that the new Production Offices at Disney Studios West in Anaheim will be named the Donn Tatum Building in his honor.



[1] This section guest-written by @jpj1421; The Gore Healthcare push will be more modest in scope compared to the Clintons’ for two reasons. Healthcare as an issue got a big national boost in our timeline when, after Senator Heinz death, Harris Wofford won the special election in a huge upset after his campaign locked onto healthcare reform as a winning issue. Likely the Gore campaign would discover for themselves, it was a popular issue to campaign on, but with Senator Heinz alive there isn't that splashy example to get a political consensus formed. That aside, even in our timeline Gore believed a bipartisan commission was appropriate for dealing with healthcare, which makes sense given that Gore was a Senator.

[2] This was a real poll from the time according to Steve Kornacki's book Red and Blue.

[3] Gingrich and Buchanan quotes are fabricated, but reflect similar statements made by both over the years. Gore’s quote takes elements and phrases from a 1993 speech given to the American College of Physicians.

[4] Occurs pretty much per our timeline with Afghan-trained terrorists sheltered by Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, investigations, and eventual trials and convictions for some of the conspirators. I debated how butterflies might affect this event, and found little other than “random butterflies” that would divert the event, which traces from a long-running conspiracy rather than an off-the-cuff attack. The ultimate causes for the attack, Islamic disillusion with US foreign policy, have not changed and the WTC is an obvious strategic and symbolic target for a variety of reasons. There are some reports that, had the perpetrators parked the vehicle in a different place in the garage, that it could have succeeded in the primary goal of toppling the North Tower into the South, but other than a passing reference to “testimony by the chief WTC architect” in an old MSNBC internet article linked in Wikipedia (via “Wayback”) that didn’t cite its source, I can’t find any evidence to support what would be a major butterfly.

[5] Ended in a deadly accidental fire in our timeline. In this one, things ended even uglier with children as young as 12 handed firearms and everyone taking the “Jim Jones” way out in the end. A handful of survivors will recall horrible events and abuses by Koresh while internal investigations will note numerous missteps by the ATF and FBI that will lead to political fallout and acrimony. As in our timeline, the event will trigger numerous conspiracy theories on the far right alleging that the FBI and ATF committed a “mass execution” of “innocent Christians” that will spread like wildfire across the brand-new internet. With the FBI leading the siege and making the child sexual assault the leading charge rather than the firearms charges (given the much more public focus on sexual assault and child sex abuse in this timeline), fewer moderate conservatives will see it as a “2nd Amendment” issue, though many on both sides of the aisle will decry this as a massive blunder and overreach by the FBI, leaving Attorney General Sonia Sotomayor answering a lot of difficult questions. Note that Ruby Ridge is butterflied since the tragicomic set of compounding errors, misjudgments, and simple stupid luck that led to that standoff was unlikely to begin with.

[6] In our timeline, President Clinton appointed the politically-ambitious Admiral Jonathan Howe to the position, who had little to no real relevant experience but was well connected politically, and who has been accused of being a “Briefcase Admiral” who never left his desk and whose decisions, often made against the advice of the officers on the ground, were cited as exacerbating an already bad situation, leading to “Bloody Monday” and the “Black Hawk Down” incident. Here Gore, a Combat Veteran, has gone for military experience over political connections. Will it make a difference? Stay tuned.
 
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[5] Ended in a deadly accidental fire in our timeline. In this one, things ended even uglier with children as young as 12 handed firearms and everyone taking the “Jim Jones” way out in the end. A handful of survivors will recall horrible events and abuses by Koresh while internal investigations will note numerous missteps by the ATF and FBI that will lead to political fallout and acrimony. As in our timeline, the event will trigger numerous conspiracy theories on the far right alleging that the FBI and ATF committed a “mass execution” of “innocent Christians” that will spread like wildfire across the brand-new internet. With the FBI leading the siege and making the child sexual assault the leading charge rather than the firearms charges (given the much more public focus on sexual assault and child sex abuse in this timeline), fewer moderate conservatives will see it as a “2nd Amendment” issue, though many on both sides of the aisle will decry this as a massive blunder and overreach by the FBI, leaving Attorney General Sonia Sotomayor answering a lot of difficult questions. Note that Ruby Ridge is butterflied since the tragicomic set of compounding errors, misjudgments, and simple stupid luck that led to that standoff was unlikely to begin with.
If William Sessions wasn’t already fired this event probably helps him get the boot. In our timeline Sessions was being investigated for improper use of the FBI jet, questionable money issues related to fences, and his wife’s various issues (diverting an FBI convoy to stop at a factory to repair a clock radio, getting a security pass so to walk around the FBI HQ unescorted, being paranoid of the FBI, and other issues). Director Sessions did a lot for his wife and it got him into trouble.


 
Which just goes to show how far right American politics is. I mean the more I watch J.J. McCullough the more I think Canadian Conservatives are politically closer to American Liberals than American Conservatives.
Uh, as a canadian I can confirm that's not the case. I mean, around this time one conserative party is making an ableist attack ad!

Nice (if tragic and morbid) update
 
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Uh, as a canadian I can confirm that's not the case. I mean, around this time one conserative party is making an ableist attack ad!
Canadian Tories (I think they were “Progressive Conservatives”) were odd. As for Canada it has problems; Quebec wanting to be free, the Highway of Tears not being known about yet as well as the various disappearances and murders of indigenous women that the cops and Mounties aren’t too keen on solving, and high rates of tax fraud and insurance fraud.

Probably the Airbus Affair will probably come to light eventually.
 
Uh, as a canadian I can confirm that's not the case. I mean, around this time one conserative party is making an ableist attack ad!

Nice (if tragic and morbid update)
And that worked well--so well, as a matter of fact, that the Progressive Conservatives were kicked out of all but two seats in the 1993 Canadian federal election, losing official party status (even the leader (and then-Prime Minister) Kim Campbell lost her seat--only the third time in Canadian history that a sitting prime minister lost an election and seat)...

The Progressive Conservatives were likely going to lose anyway, given the other issues they were dealing with--this just ensured it would be a landslide, much like Wendy Davis' empty wheelchair ad sealed her fate against Greg Abbott in the 2014 Texas gubernatorial election (1)...

(1) Here's a tip, Wendy: when you have to hold a press conference with disabled people to show that you didn't mean anything against them and explain the context of the ad, you've lost the argument (that ad is considered one of the worst of 2014)...
 
Wow that's lots of bad news in one post.
Sadly I'm not well versed in these topics to really say anything.

Which just goes to show how far right American politics is. I mean the more I watch J.J. McCullough the more I think Canadian Conservatives are politically closer to American Liberals than American Conservatives.
America has two right wing parties in the government and both are still pushing to the right.

If there’s one thing that I heard again and again campaigning for this office it’s that our health care system is in crisis, a crisis that hits at the heart of every American family.
Hopefully that will not cost him the reelection later.

[3] Gingrich and Buchanan quotes are fabricated, but reflect similar statements made by both over the years. Gore’s quote takes elements and phrases from a 1993 speech given to the American College of Physicians.
It's probably close to the truth.

fewer moderate conservatives will see it as a “2nd Amendment” issue,
I hope hope that won't become such a movement as in OTL. It's so embarrassing how riled up some people get because of firearms. Like personal responsibility goes both ways: You want to own a firearm, you need to keep it and the public safe from harm.

Great chapter @Geekhis Khan
 
Especially since I'm sure that even the Dutch won't legalise weed until a decade from now.
its a strange situation here in NL, technically it is called 'gedoogbeleid' condoning policy. weed still is outlawed currently, but there is a certain amount that will be tolerated (only medical cannabis is legal through official channels such as pharmacies through prescription)
 
gedoogbeleid
Of course that's what it's called.😅

How do you guys take anything seriously when you're speaking dutch😂

but there is a certain amount that will be tolerated (only medical cannabis is legal through official channels such as pharmacies through prescription)
Are you talking now or in the 90s?

Unlike a lot of my contemporaries I'm not well versed in weed laws. However it does sound like decriminalisation.
 
Sadly I'm not well versed in these topics to really say anything.
Same.
I hope hope that won't become such a movement as in OTL. It's so embarrassing how riled up some people get because of firearms. Like personal responsibility goes both ways: You want to own a firearm, you need to keep it and the public safe from harm.
Yeah, even with the more left-leaning direction this TL is in, I'm quite sure the gun lobby is going to seek to prevent itself fro going extinct.

I actually compare the whole idea of guns like phones, like how people obsess and are addicted to them and act as though you can't live without them even when the damage is clear.
 
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