>Getting to Know You
>Hosted by Houtha Faqaryu
The Irony is rich with this.
>Hosted by Houtha Faqaryu
The Irony is rich with this.
Cheryl clearly isn't the entertainer type Well would've been boring if all the Hensons were just a family of natural performers. She has other strengths.Well (laughs, obviously a little nervous in the spotlight) Margie made me do it. I’d never led production on a major film before. I’d produced some stuff for TV, but since the early ‘90s I’d mostly gotten in to costuming and design. But Margaret had pulled me in to assist on Spider-Man 2’s production and then on 3’s and then X-Men, so in her mind it was the natural next step for me. I’d have been happy to do the costuming. I suspect my sister Lisa put her up to it. She’s always wanted to see me excel as a producer like her; I think she’s trying to strike a blow for women in Hollywood. Anyway, I approached Frank Oz to direct, but he suggested that I talk to Leonard. (looks pleadingly to Leonard)
Stan is absolutely rightIf I may interject, The Fantastic Four is and always has been about family. The Four may not be related by blood, save for Sue and Johnny, obviously, but they are a family and their story is a family story. Reed Richards is the father figure, Sue the mother, and Ben and Johnny the kids, brothers
Cool way to characterise the characters. Also I'm sure that if this film came out a decade or two before Nemoy would've been cast as Reed himself.It’s the idea that we’re all made up of some combination of four temperaments based on the four “humors”: sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, and melancholic. Each is tied to an element (earth, air, fire, water), each is tied to a color, each is tied to a fluid in the body, yadda-yadda. Medical science dumped it centuries ago but it’s still used by psychology. Jungian archetypes, Meyers-Briggs, and all that. Anyway…the idea is that when the four humors are balanced you get one perfect human being, but nearly everyone skews to one or two of them more than others. Reed is, like, textbook Melancholic: he’s intellectual, reserved, logical, can be disconnected, callous, and cold, and he hides his emotions even as they boil inside him…
That sounds like a character near and dear to my heart! (all laugh)
Great casting. Tommy Lister (RIP) is of course a bit of a departure from the comics but it can work.Leonard, casting the Fan Four, you brought in Pierce Brosnan to play Reed Richards, a.k.a. Mr. Fantastic, Michelle Pfeiffer to play Sue Storm a.k.a. The Invisible Woman, Keanu Reeves to play Johnny Storm, a.k.a. The Human Torch, and Tommy Lister, Jr., as Ben Grimm, a.k.a. The Thing.
Cool, a period piece is certainly a fan favourite approach to adapting the FF.The film is actually set in 1961, the year the original comic came out, rather than in the present day, which was a creative risk. It famously begins with a credits scene that introduces the characters and their world through images on a mural painted in that old midcentury NASA art style, all while Danny Elfman’s iconic theme plays. The images on the mural tell us the events in the character’s lives prior to the film and introduces the characters in media res flying into space to repair a faulty NASA satellite while the Soviets look on. The mission is a success, but it nearly ends in disaster. Why?
Great way to visualise their dynamic and their character flaws.Because, frankly, the Four nearly screw it up! Reed’s too busy checking the scientific data to pay attention, Ben is teasing and egging on Johnny, who is the one out in the spacesuit doing the repairs, and Sue sees what’s wrong, but is afraid to speak up! We get to see the flawed humans that lie underneath the powers. And let me say how pleased that I was that they set the film in the sixties. It not only honors the original comic, but it made the movie stand out against all of the other superhero films of the era. It also brought back some great memories for me!
Also great way to fake out the comic fans who probably assumed that was the flight that gave them their powers.This opening scene is critical for me. Joss and I wanted it to introduce the audience not only to the situation and setting, but to give them some establishing character moments for the Four. The Four return to Earth and get a tickertape parade in Manhattan, and you can see how the fame is only amplifying their negative traits. But, of
MMU Set up! Whose playing Stark and will he cameo in the Avengers movie?Mr. Richards? Dr. Norman North, National Aeronautics and Space Association. This is Howard Stark, an independent consultant. The government congratulates you on the success of the Pegasus mission, but something has come up.
Weird I never imagined Doom to be the type to collaborate with the Soviets. Especially since some standalone stories suggest that he lost his family to the Red Army.Because Victor Von Doom, the leader of Latveria, has already announced his plans to bring part of it back to Earth. Worse, he's working in partnership with the Soviets.
ChillsDr. Victor Von DOOM, wearing a fancy, Old World suit (no mask), marches along a vaulted hallway with a troop of Latverian Soldiers. Harsh light and long morning shadows slice the scene diagonally, causing DOOM’S face to pass in and out of shadow like a strobe. They march past row after row of suits of medieval armor. DOOM reaches a balcony overlooking a wide plaza full of screaming, cheering people. ZOOM IN on DOOM’S handsome, smirking face as he looks over the crowd.
Funny how Finnes gets casted in yet another period movie, especially since he is now working with the Reds instead of against them. Also again brilliant casting.Yes, Ralph was a pleasure to work with. Just a dominating presence, which is absolutely critical for a villain of Doom’s, well, magnitude! The same cold, brutal efficiency Ralph has shown as James Bond, but now adapted to the villain. Getting the lighting right in that hall scene was quite the challenge. We wanted a hard morning light that cast ominous shadows, but we had to avoid the shadows blocking out Ralph. We wanted some shadow to imply duality and hidden depths, but you still needed to see his face! Some fans complained that we showed his face right from the start, but first, you don’t hire Ralph Fiennes and hide him behind a mask for the whole film and second, it was critical to show Doom before the Incident and get a chance to see him as he sees himself.
This oddly reminds me of how people describe Stalin. Certainly fitting for a man wearing a suit if Armour.Actually, yea, that came into my writing. If the Ideal Human balances all humors, then the anti-ideal swings wildly between their extremes. Doom thus swings constantly between the mania of extreme Sanguinity, the rage and megalomania of the extreme Choleretic, the sullen self-loathing of the extreme Phlegmatic, and the cold, merciless detachment of extreme Melancholy. I was afraid he’d come across as too campy and Vaudevillian, but Ralph just…inhabited the role. He could be so friendly and charismatic one moment and then instantly snap to murderous rage and then to icy calm within a quarter minute and sell it.
I applaud them for making Doom being connected to their origin actually work, precisely because he isn't actually involved with it. The early 2000s movies tried to make Dooms powers related to the radiation and it just made him someone who isn't Doom.Well, it’s a mess. Sue is admonishing them to be careful, but Ben, a cocky Korean War fighter ace and the ship’s main pilot, is feeling competitive and Doom in the Latverian rocket is enraged at the competition and screaming threats across the radio. Reed is quipping back at him, enraging him further, and Doom and Ben are soon trying to run each other off course. Ultimately, Reed makes a critical comment about Latverian rocket design, sending Doom into a rage. Doom rams the Four’s rocket, causing Doom’s console to explode in his face. His copilots take over the rocket and return to Earth despite his raging to continue on to the comet. Meanwhile, a celebratory Ben flies to the comet. Of course, once they reach the comet and start to explore, there’s a surge in the strange energy
flooding the ship with radiation, giving the Four their powers…and I’m rambling, my apologies (all laugh).
Reminds me of the scene in OTLs Batman 89 with the Joker. Deliberate?The SURGEON hands DOOM a mirror. DOOM looks. He silently rises from the chair, face hidden in shadow
SurgeonDOOM grabs the SURGEON around the neck. The SURGEON starts to choke.
Your Excellency, the wounds are still fresh! They will heal if you give them time! There will hardly be any scarring at…
DoomThe SURGEON chokes and dies. DOOM, face still hidden in the shadows, drops the dead man and turns to the camera, only his angry eyes visible. He throws the mirror against the wall, where it shatters.
YOU DID THIS TO ME!!! YOU MADE ME THIS…MONSTER!!!!
I wonder if this scene was inspired by the recent at time of filming weapons smuggling in the area.The Four fly to Crimea to confront Doom, now revealed to be wearing his iconic mask and armor. They break up the weapons sale to the Soviets, but as the Four battle the Red Army, Doom escapes with some radioactive substance traded by the Soviets for the weapons, largely because the Four get distracted from their central mission while they fight the Reds. The Four have to regroup and start learning to overcome their individual limitations and work together as a team.
Finally the Sue we all know and love!(scowls, walks up and grabs Reed by the rubbery neck, pulling his face directly to hers) They’re your friends, Reed! They’re your employees! You’re like a father to them! They look up to you, and you’re just…playing with your toys!! Man-up and talk to them, you stubborn, inflexible man!!
Love this moment, really elevates the casting.(looks him in the eye) You scared me, alright?! You scared me! I’d worked all of my life to overcome the way people saw me. All that they saw was my skin, not my soul!! I worked my damn ass off to get to where I was in Reed’s company! And I had to work three times harder than anyone else!! And then in comes ol’ Johnny Storm, the handsome, charming young wunderkind, the little brother to the boss’s girlfriend. Do you think for a second that Reed was going to give ol’ Ben a second look when it was time to name his successor?!? And now, my skin is holding me back again. Can you see this face greeting the board of directors?!? (puts on nasally suburban white accent) “Hey, folks, don’t let the stone face fool you, I’m just a happy, snappy guy!!” It wasn’t just my beautiful face I lost that day; it was my life. My future!!
Yeah Sue safes the day.DOOM charges up and blasts again. SUE grunts and grimaces under the onslaught. ZOOM IN on her face as the fear turns to anger and resolve. Her eyes start to glow and she brings her hands together as if gathering up the power in herself, then screams and thrusts her hands outwards. The Force Field flies outwards like a shockwave, shaking the hallway and flinging DOOM though the window, where he plummets silently to the concrete below. REED extends his neck and peers out the window. DOOM’S lifeless body lays still on the ground below. REED’S head reels back and looks at SUE
A Doombot of course! Actually given that he lost his face just before this it makes sense that he wouldn't go there himself.The camera slowly ZOOMS IN on the still body, closer and closer to the masked face, ominous music playing. A pool of liquid slowly expands on the concrete below the head, but it’s not red like blood, but a bright neon green, like some sort of industrial coolant. DOOM’S words get slower and lower pitched, like a recording slowing down.
Weird I never imagined Doom to be the type to collaborate with the Soviets. Especially since some standalone knives suggest that he lost his family to the Red Army.
Doom being Doom. I see him using the Soviets to further his own goals rather than working with or for them.Honestly, not that surprised Doom would be given Soviet ties though I always saw Doom as probably leaning more toward Tito than Stalin in how he would run things
Oh, yes, I'm well aware that Ford hates Han Solo and has been trying to kill him for years. It's not like he's been subtle about it. But Kazanjian also produced Legacy of the Jedi iTTL if you recall, so I figured he pulled the same trick to get Ford. Unless someone can point to a specific butterfly in my TL that would prevent it. Also very early in my TL, so it would have started pushing things towards the Fiction Zone quicker than planned, though I did strongly consider leaving Han stuck in carbonite and handing his spot to Lando.I like this timeline but I'm not sure Ford would return to Star Wars. Howard Kazanjian kinda had to do some behind the back negotiating with Harrison's agents son to get him to come back and I think Ford was bitter. He only returned for TFA because they agreed to kill him off.
I take everything said about Star Wars production history with a huge bucket of salt. The web is full of "common knowledge" that is objectively incorrect (e.g. Wookies on Endor). Self-professed "experts" on YouTube abound, muddying the waters, claiming "special knowledge" and unnamed "inside sources", but tend to prove wrong in their prognostications. And most pertinent of all, Lucasfilm has been a black box with a tightly controlled information flow and very few leaks both before and after the Disney sale. Plus Lucas himself has made a deliberate effort to control the narrative (creating the "Darth Vader = Dark Father" thing...in 2008!) and in some cases even deliberately changing his original quotes to maintain the Myth of the Immaculate Production, such as where Rinzler openly admitted on Starwars.com (the official website) in 2013 to him adding Midi-Chlorians to a 1977 quote in The Making of Star Wars and thus implying that they were always a part of Lucas's plan:I don't think Peter Kaminski is an entirely reliable source. He seems to have a genuine hate on for George Lucas so some things need to be taken with buckets of salt (for instance the reason Kurtz was fired was because he not only went over budget but lied about it to the point where the bank was about to pull the plug until Kazanjian worked out a last minute deal.) Things like Vader being Luke's dad and Luke not going dark were all him and they were brilliant.
And no, I'm not watching that. I clicked on it, saw that it was two freaking hours long, and that it begins with "I saw this video on YouTube, and let me tell you how it's wrong and why it sucks". It reeks of Fan Rant. I fucking despise Fan Rant videos, particularly ones that take significantly longer than the film they're ranting about. If you're going to crap all over someone else's hard work, then at least be funny about it, and ideally a bit self-aware and self-effacing about it (like Mr. Plinkett's "reviews", which are so self-aware and the host so deliberately obnoxious and psychotic that it borders on self-satire of the Hatedom itself as well).
Well, if someone wants to go there in a guest post, go for it. The CP5 case was pretty specific, so simply having some other poor schmuck(s) targeted by the police, or perhaps, you know, the actual killer, would butterfly their ordeal.PS: I know this is a tall order but I'd like to think that in this universe the Central Park 5 didn't have their lives destroyed for no reason; maybe when Reyes attacked his victim on April 17th the police actually followed up and put him in custody before he attacked Meili.
Yea, I totally understand. Tiny was selected based on physical appearance and the added racial subtext (not just "gratuitous diversity") and I did at least keep the character Jewish, but yea, I can get that and I'm sure there will be complaints in universe about this, and that the debate will feed in to the acrimonious relationship between the Jewish and Black communities too. I figure Stan and Leonard see it as reaching out to bridge the divide between the two communities, but ironically they end up inflaming things a little further.All of this is cool and all, though I will say I'm a touch disappointed a Jewish actor wasn't gotten for Ben in this timeline, just given how important his religion is to him in the comics.
That said, it's cool to see Tiny Lister get a big role, and I hope it means he got more chances to go against typecast.
Weird I never imagined Doom to be the type to collaborate with the Soviets. Especially since some standalone stories suggest that he lost his family to the Red Army.
Honestly, not that surprised Doom would be given Soviet ties though I always saw Doom as probably leaning more toward Tito than Stalin in how he would run things
Pyro nailed it. Doom cares not about the Soviets and their pathetic Communist system. Doom only has use for their materials. Let them play with Doom's discarded toys while Doom creates REAL power!Doom being Doom. I see him using the Soviets to further his own goals rather than working with or for them.
Thanks. Tying the villain to the heroes is a standard practice to add a personal dimension to the conflict, and thus tying together origins is a quick shortcut in that regards when every second of run time is a precious resource. I wanted to at least keep the core of Doom's origin the same: he takes reckless action, things literally explode in his face, he blames Reed.I applaud them for making Doom being connected to their origin actually work, precisely because he isn't actually involved with it. The early 2000s movies tried to make Dooms powers related to the radiation and it just made him someone who isn't Doom.
Extra funny is that I wrote the first draft of this and cast Fiennes as Doom long before I cast Fiennes as Bond, which was a guest suggestion. I saw the artwork of Doom unmasked and, well, Fiennes was scary-perfect and probably one of the few actors that could play Doom's full span of emotions and not be silly or campy, but actually scary.Funny how Finnes gets casted in yet another period movie, especially since he is now working with the Reds instead of against them. Also again brilliant casting.
If there are no retcons for Star Wars OT, why not have future EU media mention that Han will eventually die during some future war (like a second Galactic Civil War or an alien invasion like the Yuuzhan Vong)? Seems like good timing too as the next-gen characters would be aged up to fully realize the gravity of Han's death.Also very early in my TL, so it would have started pushing things towards the Fiction Zone quicker than planned, though I did strongly consider leaving Han stuck in carbonite and handing his spot to Lando.
Honestly, this seems more befitting of a new TL entirely. No hard feelings, but I'd probably read it.I understand not wanting to retcon; Maybe Ford ultimately had a Nimoy like acceptance eventually (or they make concessions such as not having Han appear in too many episodes, that way Harrison can still focus on his other projects); heck Han maybe CAN die in the Series finale.
Personally (and this is just my take feel absolutely free to reject it) what I would have done was the following. Lucas is in a car crash or some other near death experience right after Empire comes out. While decompressing he tells Howard and the others "okay this is the last one". When Kazanjian meets with Phil Gersh he mentions this to him; Gersh runs it by Harrison and tells him about how it would be the last one. Harrison tells him "if they throw in a certain amount of money I'm on board." Gersh gets back sooner and the deal is set up.
The near death experience also reminds Lucas just how fragile life can be, while the hospital experience gives him time to decompress, which leads to the following changes in the timeline
1.) Kasden Ford and the others are able to persuade him to kill off Han by saying he can teach kids a lesson about how fragile life can be; Lucas will express regret for it later in life but everyone else agrees it was a good decision.
2.) George and Marcia try to make things work more, and while they're ultimately unable to the parting is somewhat more amicable than in OTL; Lucas realizes it's just not going to work and so is less resistant to the idea of a divorce.
There's a Speculation Thread for exactly this kind of thing. We're trying to get to Y2K before the 500-page limit.I understand not wanting to retcon; Maybe Ford ultimately had a Nimoy like acceptance eventually (or they make concessions such as not having Han appear in too many episodes, that way Harrison can still focus on his other projects); heck Han maybe CAN die in the Series finale...