Getting to Know The Fantastic Four (1997)
Interview with Cheryl Henson, Leonard Nimoy, Stan Lee, and Joss Whedon for Getting to Know You with Houtha Faqaryu, July 23rd, 2012
Int – Studio (Chromakey)
The three guests sit in director’s chairs across from the host, Houtha Faqaryu. The chromakey screen shows an image of the movie poster for
The Fantastic Four (1997)[1]. A jazzy instrumental version of the song “Getting to Know You” from
The King and I plays as a theme.
TITLE CARD: “Getting to Know You, with Houtha Faqaryu”
Houtha
Salutations and welcome again to Getting to Know You, the show where we get to know the people behind some of your favorite productions of film, television, or stage. And with me today are four of the names behind the hit 1997 superhero action-comedy The Fantastic Four, released fifteen years ago, can you believe it? It was the number three hit of the summer and the number five highest grossing film of the year, earning a $444.4 million international box office total. They are a “fantastic four” in their own right, Producer Cheryl Henson, Director Leonard Nimoy, Screenwriter Joss Whedon, and Marvel Chairman and Fantastic Four co-creator Stan Lee. Welcome! Let’s get to know you. We’ll start with producer Cheryl Henson, daughter of the great Jim Henson and an award-winning producer, author, and costume designer. Cheryl, can you tell us about how The Fantastic Four came to be?
Cheryl
(nervous) Um, certainly, Houtha. It honestly began when we first merged with Marvel back in the, ah, mid-eighties. While the first Marvel movie was a long way away at the time, we’d been releasing animated shows like Spider-Man and X-Men. Eventually, when Warner released Batman in ’89 – directed by my former brother-in-law Sam Raimi; small world! – dad and the rest decided to pursue a superhero film of our own. Obviously, Spider-Man was chosen first, as Spidey is probably the most iconic Marvel character, but we also talked about the X-Men and The Fantastic Four as options. Once Spider-Man proved a hit, [Executive Producers] Stan [Lee] and Margaret Loesch greenlit a string of Marvel films, including The Fantastic Four.
Houtha
And how did you get chosen to produce?
Cheryl
Well (laughs, obviously a little nervous in the spotlight) Margie made me do it. I’d never led production on a major film before. I’d produced some stuff for TV, but since the early ‘90s I’d mostly gotten in to costuming and design. But Margaret had pulled me in to assist on Spider-Man 2’s production and then on 3’s and then X-Men, so in her mind it was the natural next step for me. I’d have been happy to do the costuming. I suspect my sister Lisa put her up to it. She’s always wanted to see me excel as a producer like her; I think she’s trying to strike a blow for women in Hollywood. Anyway, I approached Frank Oz to direct, but he suggested that I talk to Leonard. (looks pleadingly to Leonard)
Leonard
Ah, yes, I’d worked with Frank in the past, of course. He and Cheryl figured that I had the right set of experience with both effects-driven films like Star Trek and family comedies like Three Men and a Baby, so they sent me the screenplay, and I thought it was a great story, so I signed on.
Houtha
You mentioned your experience with family comedies being an important point for them. Why is that?
Stan
If I may interject, The Fantastic Four is and always has been about family. The Four may not be related by blood, save for Sue and Johnny, obviously, but they are a family and their story is a family story. Reed Richards is the father figure, Sue the mother, and Ben and Johnny the kids, brothers.
Joss
Yes, Stan was very clear to me about that as I worked on the screenplay. He kept pushing the family aspect: “family, family, family…” I almost got sick of hearing it. (laughs)
Stan
(puts hand on Joss’ shoulder) He knows he loves me!
Joss
(pushes hand away) Forever and ever and always! Anyway, as a fan of the comics myself, this family angle was second nature to some degree, but it was good to keep that focus. As such, rather than pick one of the four and make them the Lead and the other three Supporting [roles], which I’m pretty sure most studios would have done, I made The Family the Lead character, as if all four of the heroes were aspects of a single character.
Houtha
Joss, in the VCD commentary you talked a lot about the “Four Temperaments” as the basis for the characters. Can you briefly explain to the audience what this is and why this is important?
Joss
Yea, sure, so this is old stuff here, like classical Greece and Aristotle old. It’s the idea that we’re all made up of some combination of four temperaments based on the four “humors”: sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, and melancholic. Each is tied to an element (earth, air, fire, water), each is tied to a color, each is tied to a fluid in the body, yadda-yadda. Medical science dumped it centuries ago but it’s still used by psychology. Jungian archetypes, Meyers-Briggs, and all that. Anyway…the idea is that when the four humors are balanced you get one perfect human being, but nearly everyone skews to one or two of them more than others. Reed is, like, textbook Melancholic: he’s intellectual, reserved, logical, can be disconnected, callous, and cold, and he hides his emotions even as they boil inside him…
Leonard
That sounds like a character near and dear to my heart! (all laugh)
Joss
It should, of course. Mr. Spock is another textbook case. Sue is more Phlegmatic: she’s caring, hardworking, modest and shy, likes the simple things, but she’s in constant need of validation from others and can feel invisible. Johnny is Sanguine in that he’s brave, adventurous, outgoing, friendly, talkative, and makes friends easily, but he can be a bit of an arrogant prick. And finally, Ben is Choleric: he’s dour, serious, argumentative, opinionated, and obtuse. He seems to lack the standard Choleric stereotype of being ambitious and self-serving, but then I considered Ben Grimm the man before the incident that made him The Thing. In this telling Ben Grimm is an ambitious, outgoing type who’s going to be a CEO or other bigwig, but now the incident has taken not only his humanity, but his future as he sees it. So, each of the Four alone is a flawed individual, but when they come together as a family, they become whole and able to achieve the impossible.
Stan
(wryly) Yea, which was totally what Jack [Kirby] and I had in mind all along! Four Temperaments! He’s not overthinking it at all! (all laugh as he playfully hits Joss on the shoulder)
Houtha
Leonard, casting the Fan Four, you brought in Pierce Brosnan to play Reed Richards, a.k.a. Mr. Fantastic, Michelle Pfeiffer to play Sue Storm a.k.a. The Invisible Woman, Keanu Reeves to play Johnny Storm, a.k.a. The Human Torch, and Tommy Lister, Jr., as Ben Grimm, a.k.a. The Thing[2].
Leonard
Yes, all excellent actors, every one of them. The goal was, of course, finding actors that could show both the “before” and the “after” of the characters in a way that was human rather than campy. Pierce was just masterful in capturing the spirit of Reed Richards. He’s naturally charming in that Old Hollywood way: rather old fashioned, and strong but reserved, like a Clarke Gable or Rock Hudson. He could show all of the callous, science-absorbed antisocial tendencies of Reed at the beginning and later the warm, open, and accepting father figure of the end. Michelle was, and is of course, fabulous. I’d seen her in The Witches of Eastwick and had seen how well she could portray shy and vulnerable but also demonstrate real strength and resilience. Keanu is, of course, a charming guy who can play cocky and competitive but also show a sweet, reluctant tender side. He’s also an excellent action actor and did a lot of his own stunts and is a consummate professional. Finally, Tiny…Tommy…well, I’d seen him in a few other, smaller productions. He’s certainly physically imposing and he can play the cocky king of the universe very well, but what attracted him to the role and by extension me to him for the role was the opportunity that he saw to play an angry, damaged man robbed of his humanity and ambition. He admitted to me that it was a special treat for him to play a character with depth and not just “the heavy”. His role was, honestly, the hardest and most memorable role for all of the pathos that it brought.
The Fantastic Four (L-R): Johnny Storm, Reed Richards, Sue Storm, and Ben Grimm (Image source “cinemablend.com”)
(L-R) Keanu Reeves, Pierce Brosnan, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Tommy Lister all c.1996 (Image sources “themysteryallianceeviansaga.com”, “piercebrosnan.com”, “pintrest.com”, & “ignboards.com”)
Cheryl
Yea, I love Tiny in that role. It’s almost sad to see him just playing a thug or prisoner after his role in Fantastic Four, though he does tell me that he is occasionally hired to do dramatic roles now, so I’m happy for him. He does get more opportunities to play characters with depth and feeling, but outside of our studio it can be hard for a large black man to play anything but a narrow set of roles even today, but the other studios are getting better.
Houtha
The film is actually set in 1961, the year the original comic came out, rather than in the present day, which was a creative risk. It famously begins with a credits scene that introduces the characters and their world through images on a mural painted in that old midcentury NASA art style, all while Danny Elfman’s iconic theme plays[3]. The images on the mural tell us the events in the character’s lives prior to the film and introduces the characters in media res flying into space to repair a faulty NASA satellite while the Soviets look on. The mission is a success, but it nearly ends in disaster. Why?
Stan
Because, frankly, the Four nearly screw it up! Reed’s too busy checking the scientific data to pay attention, Ben is teasing and egging on Johnny, who is the one out in the spacesuit doing the repairs, and Sue sees what’s wrong, but is afraid to speak up! We get to see the flawed humans that lie underneath the powers. And let me say how pleased that I was that they set the film in the sixties. It not only honors the original comic, but it made the movie stand out against all of the other superhero films of the era. It also brought back some great memories for me!
Leonard
This opening scene is critical for me. Joss and I wanted it to introduce the audience not only to the situation and setting, but to give them some establishing character moments for the Four. The Four return to Earth and get a tickertape parade in Manhattan, and you can see how the fame is only amplifying their negative traits. But, of course, there’s a new mission awaiting them.
Houtha
Let’s watch what happens next, as I think it tells the story.
The camera moves to the chromakey screen, which starts to play a scene from
The Fantastic Four. Soon the whole screen plays the film.
Interior – The Baxter Building – New York City – Day
THE FOUR walk through the wide-open lobby of the Baxter Building with its vaulted, atrium-like feel. In the background, security is pushing back the crowd of reporters and admirers. Elsewhere in the background we see the Mural from the opening credits.
Johnny
Did ya’ see that?!? Bam! It was all starting to go wobbly, but I kept my wits…
Ben
What there are of them…
Johnny
…and I got the sparky thingie back into…
Sue
Um, Johnny, I think it would have gone better if…
Ben
(cuts off Sue; laughing, tussling Johnny’s hair) Yea, little Johnny’s growing up! Someday soon if you keep eating your Wheaties you’ll be a big handsome man like me, kid!
Johnny
Hey! Easy on the hair, you big rock!
Ben
This ‘rock’ is gonna be your boss one day, so mind your manners!
Sue
I really think that we need to re-evalua…
Reed
Now-now, you two. Not in front of the media. (smiles and waves to the camera people)
Two men in suits walk up.
Dr. North
Mr. Richards? Dr. Norman North, National Aeronautics and Space Association. This is Howard Stark, an independent consultant. The government congratulates you on the success of the Pegasus mission, but something has come up.
North thrusts a file to Reed, who looks through it, showing blurry telescope pictures of a comet.
Stark
This comet displays a unique power signature that is of interest to the US Government and you are the only one in America who can reach it.
Sue
(looking over Reed’s shoulder) The comet will take months to complete its orbit, why the rush?
Dr. North
Because Victor Von Doom, the leader of Latveria, has already announced his plans to bring part of it back to Earth. Worse, he's working in partnership with the Soviets.
Johnny
Where the hell is Latveria?
CUT TO
Interior – Doom’s palace – Latveria – Day
Dr. Victor Von DOOM, wearing a fancy, Old World suit (no mask), marches along a vaulted hallway with a troop of Latverian Soldiers. Harsh light and long morning shadows slice the scene diagonally, causing DOOM’S face to pass in and out of shadow like a strobe. They march past row after row of suits of medieval armor. DOOM reaches a balcony overlooking a wide plaza full of screaming, cheering people. ZOOM IN on DOOM’S handsome, smirking face as he looks over the crowd.
Doom
My people.
Clip ends. Returns to Houtha and the guests in the Studio.
Doom Unmasked vs. Ralph Fiennes c1996 (Image sources “pintrest.com” & “reddit.com”)
Houtha
And who can forget the great and menacing Ralph Fiennes as Victor Von Doom. What is a good superhero team without a good nemesis?
Leonard
Yes, Ralph was a pleasure to work with. Just a dominating presence, which is absolutely critical for a villain of Doom’s, well, magnitude! The same cold, brutal efficiency Ralph has shown as James Bond, but now adapted to the villain. Getting the lighting right in that hall scene was quite the challenge. We wanted a hard morning light that cast ominous shadows, but we had to avoid the shadows blocking out Ralph. We wanted some shadow to imply duality and hidden depths, but you still needed to see his face! Some fans complained that we showed his face right from the start, but first, you don’t hire Ralph Fiennes and hide him behind a mask for the whole film and second, it was critical to show Doom before the Incident and get a chance to see him as he sees himself.
Joss
Doom was a blast to write for, but also a challenge. Not to mention I had to resist slipping in Bond jokes when I heard that Ralph was getting cast. Doom was relatively unknown outside of comics fandom before the film, but he’s one of the top three comics villains on most fan surveys and number one for many and I was terrified of pissing off the fans, but I also had a duty to do right by the film and the film audience, who have different expectations. I also had to make Doom the literal antithesis of the Four. If the Four are Family, then he had to be the anti-family, or more precisely a dangerous narcissist who’s all about himself. The “me” vs. the “we”. He shows a great love for “his people” and treats them quite well for a maniacal dictator, but that’s really only because he sees them as an extension and reflection of himself.
Stan
Yea, and Temperaments. As I always told Jack, Doom’s really all about Temperaments! (hits Joss playfully on the shoulder; all laugh)
Joss
Actually, yea, that came into my writing. If the Ideal Human balances all humors, then the anti-ideal swings wildly between their extremes. Doom thus swings constantly between the mania of extreme Sanguinity, the rage and megalomania of the extreme Choleretic, the sullen self-loathing of the extreme Phlegmatic, and the cold, merciless detachment of extreme Melancholy. I was afraid he’d come across as too campy and Vaudevillian, but Ralph just…inhabited the role. He could be so friendly and charismatic one moment and then instantly snap to murderous rage and then to icy calm within a quarter minute and sell it.
Stan
I like to pick on Joss for overthinking things, but he really captured the soul of the characters. Far too often Hollywood forgets what makes the characters work. They try to reshape the characters to meet popular archetypes rather than look at who the characters were and why people like them. Joss and Leonard could have tried to make Doom into a corporate CEO or changed his name to something less campy, but Cheryl didn’t let them. Great job, you guys! (pats Joss on the back)
Cheryl
Aw! Thanks, Stan! So, yes, one of the biggest challenges in this job is to balance between the different audiences. You have to find that Goldilocks point that’s mainstream enough to bring joy to millions but not totally alienate the core audience. That’s hard. Lots of what works in a comic will never play on the big screen and vice versa. I mean, superheroes are kind of absurd when you think about it, but at the same time they’re, like, modern day Heroes of the classical sense, larger-than-life beings that represent who we are or what we wish that we were. I see The Thing or Mr. Fantastic as right there with Hercules or Gilgamesh in our shared story-space.
Leonard
Adaptations are a knife’s edge, and I’m glad that Cheryl and [Executive Producer] Margie [Loesch] gave us the creative space to experiment rather than force us down a preset pathway.
Joss
Hear hear!
Houtha
In the next set piece, the Four rocket back into space and are in a big rocket race to the comet with Doom. What happens?
Joss
Well, it’s a mess. Sue is admonishing them to be careful, but Ben, a cocky Korean War fighter ace and the ship’s main pilot, is feeling competitive and Doom in the Latverian rocket is enraged at the competition and screaming threats across the radio. Reed is quipping back at him, enraging him further, and Doom and Ben are soon trying to run each other off course. Ultimately, Reed makes a critical comment about Latverian rocket design, sending Doom into a rage. Doom rams the Four’s rocket, causing Doom’s console to explode in his face. His copilots take over the rocket and return to Earth despite his raging to continue on to the comet. Meanwhile, a celebratory Ben flies to the comet. Of course, once they reach the comet and start to explore, there’s a surge in the strange energy, flooding the ship with radiation, giving the Four their powers…and I’m rambling, my apologies (all laugh).
Houtha
This was a slight shift from the Four’s origins in the comics and a major change to Doom’s story. Did this create any issues among the fans?
Joss
Does Superman hate kryptonite? Yea, we got a lot of angry email for that one, but less than you’d think. Sure, some fans would rather we drag the film to a grinding halt for fifteen minutes while we explain in detailed exposition or flashback how Victor and Reed went to college together and how Reed tried to point out Victor’s mistakes in a machine intended to talk to his dead mother, but that Victor ignored him, leading to the experimental system exploding in his face and scarring him. He blames Reed and vows revenge, yadda yadda, but… (fakes a loud yawn) …seriously, you have only about a hundred minutes to tell a complete three act narrative. Literally every second counts and for everything you add in you need to take away something else out, perhaps something critical to the story or character arcs. I think most fans know this and accept a pragmatic change as long as you don’t try to change the character too much. Besides, it’s more or less the same origin, just moved in space-time.
Cheryl
I thought that it was a good Goldilocks approach, but yea, I still get an occasional angry fan confronting me about Doom’s origins not being the same as in the comics and trying to explain to me why it matters to the heart of the character that they love. I mean, I honestly sympathize with them, everyone has their passions, after all, and I really appreciate their passion for the characters they love, but like Joss said, we need to choose our minutes very carefully.
Houtha
When the Four return to Earth, clearly going through inexplicable changes from the radiation, they soon discover their new powers while on the other side of the world Doom tries to literally save face. Let’s take a moment to look at a quick scene of this:
Exterior – Doom’s palace – Latveria – Day
We see Doom’s palace in Latveria. The two unresisting CO-PILOTS who turned around the rocket against his orders are getting put in front of a firing squad. PAN UP AND IN on a window and CUT TO…
Interior – Doom’s palace – Surgery Room – Day
A SURGEON is attending to DOOM’S face (hidden from the audience).
Doom
(thrusts out a hand) Show me!!
Surgeon
Your Excellency, the wounds are not yet…
Doom
SHOW ME!!!!
The SURGEON hands DOOM a mirror. DOOM looks. He silently rises from the chair, face hidden in shadow
Surgeon
Your Excellency, the wounds are still fresh! They will heal if you give them time! There will hardly be any scarring at…
DOOM grabs the SURGEON around the neck. The SURGEON starts to choke.
Doom
YOU DID THIS TO ME!!! YOU MADE ME THIS…MONSTER!!!!
Surgeon
I…can’t…breathe…
Doom
A MONSTER!!!!
The SURGEON chokes and dies. DOOM, face still hidden in the shadows, drops the dead man and turns to the camera, only his angry eyes visible. He throws the mirror against the wall, where it shatters.
Doom
(frighteningly calm) Reed…Reed Richards…you did this to me.
DOOM looks over to where a suit of medieval armor stands by the wall. ZOOM IN on the familiar face mask as ominous music plays.
WIPE TO…
Exterior – Field – Day
REED’S smiling face is in the foreground, a look of childlike amazement in his eyes. PAN BACK to reveal that his amazement is for his arms as they bend and twist and expand like rubber. The Four’s Rocket is in the background, plowed into the earth from the crash landing. JOHNNY is flying through the air engulfed in flames, cheering loudly. SUE is looking on, confused. She looks at her hand as it goes invisible and back to visible.
Reed
Fantastic, isn’t it darling? Think of what I can do in the lab with this amazing level of flexibility!
Sue
Reed, where’s Ben?
Reed
Ben? Over there somewhere beating up rocks. (points elastically with a foot while continuing to be amazed with himself)
Johnny
(flying by with a streak of flame) This is the best thing ever!!!
SUE walks away from REED. She can hear BEN yelling and the sound of smashing rock. She walks over (camera PANS with her) to BEN, seen only from the back, who is now covered in orange stone-like skin. He is angrily smashing the rock on a cliff face with his fists. SUE walks up. BEN turns, rage in his eyes, his entire face also stone, and screams as he raises a rock. SUE shrieks and vanishes. BEN immediately looks scared and guilty and drops the rock.
Ben
Sue? Sue! I’m sorry Sue!! Sue, where are you?!? Are you OK?
Sue
(reappearing) Ben, I’m fine, are you OK?
Ben
Oh, Sue! I was afraid…I…am I OK?
Sue
(puts both her hands on his face) Are you OK?
Ben
(beat) No. No, Sue, I’m not OK. (shakes off her hands) How can I be OK? Look at me!! LOOK!!! I’m a MONSTER!!
Sue
You’re not a monster, you’re still Ben. We all had things happen to us when the…
Ben
“We?!?” Reed’s playing jump rope with his own damn arms! Johnny’s having the time of his damn life flying around like a flaming fool! You don’t even have to be seen if you don’t want to. And all of you look just the same as you did before!! Y’all are still human!! I’m just some…stupid ugly thing!!! (punches the stone, cracking it)
Return to the Studio
Cheryl
Wow…Tommy was just so good in that…
Stan
If only I’d known Tiny back in ’61, I would have totally made Ben look like him! Let the jerks complain about the race change all they want, Tiny nailed Ben. I’m sure Jack, God rest his soul, would have agreed. And on a side note, yes, geniuses, there are Black Jews in real life. Ever heard of Sammy Davis Jr? How about Ethiopia?
Leonard
Yes, and special notice should be given to editor Jim Miller for the excellent cross-cutting he did as well. The way it sets up a connection between Victor’s self-loathing and Ben’s with Reed there in the middle managed to capture the larger story in a few seconds of run time.
Cheryl
And a nod certainly goes to the director as well, Leonard. You pulled brilliant performances form the actors.
Leonard
You’re too kind, Cheryl. I had great actors to work with.
Houtha
Not to mention that you had Stan Lee, whom we all just saw in a cameo as the Latverian Captain leading the firing squad!
Stan
Hey, it served them right, not listening to the Boss!
Audience laughs.
Stan (Cont’d)
All jokes aside, it was a fun role. Compared to having The Hulk smash my car and Sabertooth and Wolvie burst through my living room walls, it’s a definite step up!
Houtha
(laughs) So, the Four, with their newfound powers, start fighting crime, but they’re still not functioning well as a team. They’re a hit in the press, who now dub them “The Fantastic Four”, and it’s clearly going to Reed and Johnny’s heads while Sue and Ben try to avoid the cameras. Then the government comes to them with another job. Latveria is attempting to sell some of its high technology to the Soviets and the CIA wants to stop him. The effects for this film were praised, particularly in how the old Soviet vehicles were brought to life.
Cheryl
Yes, the I-Works by this point had mastered computer effects and were rivalling or even surpassing ILM. My brother Brian was once again the creative lead there. Johnny and Sue and Reed were mostly done with computer effects, of course, but Ben was done like The Hulk with both CG and animatronics plus some prosthetics for dialog scenes and close-ups. We even reused the Hulk animatronic rig literally reskinned for Thing. We were able to source many of the ground vehicles through various companies around LA whose entire business is restoring or recreating vintage tanks and the like. But the real challenge was the Migs. MiG-15s weren’t exactly in common supply in ’96. So we had to rely on a combination of physical and computer models. The self-styled Computer Nerds had a blast developing the dogfights between the Migs and The Human Torch. The effects still hold up well today.
Houtha
The Four fly to Crimea to confront Doom, now revealed to be wearing his iconic mask and armor. They break up the weapons sale to the Soviets, but as the Four battle the Red Army, Doom escapes with some radioactive substance traded by the Soviets for the weapons, largely because the Four get distracted from their central mission while they fight the Reds. The Four have to regroup and start learning to overcome their individual limitations and work together as a team.
Joss
(dryly) Well, that’s certainly the entire fifty-minute Second Act in a nutshell. Of course, the plot isn’t the point. It’s the characters. It’s how the Four interact with one another, not just that they learn how to function as a team, but how they manage to. That latter point is often lost with other films, in my opinion. They toss in a throwaway line or show a “Go Team” montage and that’s it, so they don’t earn the lesson or character growth.
Houtha
Let’s take a look at some of that critical dialog.
Interior – Baxter Building – Night
REED is in the lab, his long, elastic arms simultaneously performing a half-dozen tasks all at the same time. SUE walks up.
Reed
(focus still on the chemicals he’s mixing) Just a minute, dear, I’m in the middle of important work.
Sue
The work can wait, Reed. You need to talk to Johnny and Ben. They haven’t spoken together since Crimea.
Reed
They’re grown men, Sue, they need to take care of it themselves.
Sue
(scowls, walks up and grabs Reed by the rubbery neck, pulling his face directly to hers) They’re your friends, Reed! They’re your employees! You’re like a father to them! They look up to you, and you’re just…playing with your toys!! Man-up and talk to them, you stubborn, inflexible man!!
SUE throws REED’S head away, and he has to pull it back to his body. The pipe drops from his mouth and a look of shocked realization sets in.
WIPE TO…
Exterior – City Street – Night
JOHNNY is confronting BEN in an alley. BEN is awkwardly trying to hide his form behind a trench coat and fedora.
Johnny
(points) Don’t you dare walk away from me, Ben!
Ben
(turns head) Don’t you mean ‘Thing’?
Johnny
(sighs, shoulders sag) Look, I’m sorry! It was a joke. I didn’t think that the press would run with it!
BEN snorts and starts walking away. JOHNNY ignites and flies in front of BEN.
Johnny
(flames fade as he’s talking) You think it’s been easy for me, Ben?!? You think I just waltz through life?! You never gave me a chance! You always put me down and pushed me aside! Like I was nobody!!! What in the hell did I ever do to you?!?
Ben
(looks him in the eye) You scared me, alright?! You scared me! I’d worked all of my life to overcome the way people saw me. All that they saw was my skin, not my soul!! I worked my damn ass off to get to where I was in Reed’s company! And I had to work three times harder than anyone else!! And then in comes ol’ Johnny Storm, the handsome, charming young wunderkind, the little brother to the boss’s girlfriend. Do you think for a second that Reed was going to give ol’ Ben a second look when it was time to name his successor?!? And now, my skin is holding me back again. Can you see this face greeting the board of directors?!? (puts on nasally suburban white accent) “Hey, folks, don’t let the stone face fool you, I’m just a happy, snappy guy!!” It wasn’t just my beautiful face I lost that day; it was my life. My future!!
Johnny
(tears in his eyes, puts hand on Ben’s shoulder) Ben, I was never a threat to you. I didn’t come in wanting your job. I just wanted your respect! You’re not a Thing, you’re my friend, you big, stupid rock!
Crying softly, the two share a brotherly hug as the camera CRANE PANS away. Triumphant music starts to plan. PAN AROUND to show REED and SUE, wearing their Fantastic Four suits, walk into the alley.
Reed
Well, gentlemen, it’s just fantastic to see you back talking to one another. I’m sorry I haven’t been there for you. But I am now. It’s past time that we all realize just who we are, not just co-workers, but as friends!
Sue
No, not friends…a family!
Return to Studio
Cheryl
Tommy and Keanu are so great there! Tommy gets a lot of well-deserved credit as Ben, but I think Keanu just captured Johnny’s free spirit and devil-may-care attitude and also his deeper pathos. The fans had a fit when we announced the casting, but I think that he won most of them over in the end.
Leonard
Keanu is a delight to work with as a director. He’ll show up on time and work harder than anyone else. Playing Johnny required the free spirit of his role in Bill & Ted and the intensity of his role in Point Break, so seeing him able to marry those two performances and then do just so well with the action made it work.
Houtha
The celebratory moment of the team coming together is short lived, of course, because Doom has used the radioactive substance to empower his armor into a walking weapon with super strength, laser blasts, and force fields, and he has constructed atomic-powered lasers for his soldiers. He believes that with these weapons that he can destroy the Fantastic Four. He assembles a force to assault Fantastic Four HQ at the Baxter Building and kill the Four, setting up the final showdown. He launches his attack on the Baxter Building later that night in the final showdown.
Stan
I liked the final battle. It’s just not a proper Fantastic Four story unless the Baxter Building gets attacked! And Wilford Brimley did a great job playing the ever-abused building owner Walter Collins.
Leonard
We were a little concerned that after battling tanks and Migs at the midpoint, the smaller, more intimate battle would be anticlimactic, so we doubled down on the intimacy and the emotion of the fight. This time it was personal. No more international intrigue, this was Victor Von Doom very directly and specifically targeting the Four. Doom and his commandoes cut the power to the building and bust in. The battle is thus in the dark, cramped corridors of the building. This neutralizes a lot of the Four’s power advantages and makes Doom’s atomic lasers all the more effective. Doom himself has now empowered himself with various weaponry and robotic strength within his suit. The Four now truly need to work together as one to defeat the Latverian commandoes and Doom himself.
Stan
Yes, and the effects and fight choreography team really worked together well to make it happen in ways that reflected the comics, with a few scenes right out of Jack’s old artwork. We got to see Thing throw The Human Torch like a football, Mr. Fantastic reaching around a charging Thing to grab and redirect a laser rifle, and Sue sneaking up behind the commandoes while invisible and kicking some ass!
Cheryl
And I loved that in the end Sue gets to save the team and defeat Doom.
Houtha
Let’s see that scene.
Sort of like this (Image source “pintrest.com”)
Interior – Baxter Building – Night
THE FOUR stand at the end of the hall. DOOM has managed to use the powers from his suit to hold off the FOUR and weakened them all.
Doom
You pathetic fools! Even united you are no match for Doom! The poets of Latveria shall write sagas about this moment…
DOOM gathers a huge surge of crackling energy power in his hands and fires a blast of raw energy at the FOUR. SUE shrieks and holds up her hands. A Force Field ignites and blocks the blast, saving the FOUR. DOOM pauses, shocked, and blasts again and again. SUE and her field start to weaken.
Doom
You can only delay the inevitable, you weak, simpering shrew!
DOOM charges up and blasts again. SUE grunts and grimaces under the onslaught. ZOOM IN on her face as the fear turns to anger and resolve. Her eyes start to glow and she brings her hands together as if gathering up the power in herself, then screams and thrusts her hands outwards. The Force Field flies outwards like a shockwave, shaking the hallway and flinging DOOM though the window, where he plummets silently to the concrete below. REED extends his neck and peers out the window. DOOM’S lifeless body lays still on the ground below. REED’S head reels back and looks at SUE.
Reed
Well, my dear, your powers are certainly coming into their own!
Sue
Smiles smugly. Yours too, dear.
Return to Studio
Joss
I was glad that we could make Sue into one of the more powerful and effective members of the team. To be honest originally Sue was just kind of there, no offense to Stan, I mean, it was the sixties and this whole ‘women are people’ thing was still kind of novel. To Stan and his team’s credit, in more recent years they’ve given Sue more power, more spotlight, and more independence, and made her not just an appendage to Reed.
Stan
Yea, we all have lessons to learn and ways to grow. Even us old guys! I still like to think that Sue was ahead of her time back then, at least a bit. (laughs)
Houtha
Before we go, the success of The Fantastic Four of course led to two sequels. The final moments of the film help set up these sequels, of course.
Exterior – Street Outside of the Baxter Building – Night
A bunch of police cars and uniformed officers stand around the still body of DOOM, now being roped off with police tape. Sparks shoot and smoke rises from the joints of the still body. DOOM seems to quietly talk.
Doom
Reed…Reed…Reed…
The camera slowly ZOOMS IN on the still body, closer and closer to the masked face, ominous music playing. A pool of liquid slowly expands on the concrete below the head, but it’s
not red like blood, but a bright
neon green, like some sort of industrial coolant. DOOM’S words get slower and lower pitched, like a recording slowing down.
Doom
Reeed…Reeeed…R-r-r (crackling static) Reed….Reeeeeeeeed……Reeeeee……
A short burst of electrical sparks shoots from the left eye of the mask. A light seems to fade from the right eye.
CUT TO CREDITS
Return to Studio
Houtha
A robot all along, not the real Doom.
Stan
Of course. We didn’t say anything at the time, and your average audience member was debating what the sparks and voice and coolant meant, but the comics fans knew a Doombot when they saw one!
Houtha
And as a final note, the four of you really seem to have come together as a team yourselves to make this film happen. Four dare I say ‘Fantastic’ folks from vastly different backgrounds all working as one to make the magic happen.
Cheryl
Not just us four, Houtha, but the hundreds of us, from Margie as Executive Producer, Jim Shooter over at Marvel helping Stan and me with the designs, all the way to Brenda, who did the catering. It was a team far bigger than just the four of us.
Leonard
Not just a team, Houtha…a family!
Joss
Oh, come on, we can’t end this interview on that cheesy line!
Stan
You’d prefer a dance number?
Houtha
(laughing) That’s all for today’s episode of Getting to Known You, I’m Houtha Faqaryu, and I’ll see you next time!
The camera ZOOMS OUT and the lights dim as the closing theme music plays. Houtha and the guests continue to talk silently in the background.
Title Card: “Getting to Know You with Houtha Faqaryu”
Fade to commercial
[1] Dr. Doom helm-tip to @nick_crenshaw,
@Pyro, @ TheFaultsofAlts, and
@GrahamB for the assist in developing and casting this film.
[2] And a special AHitHoM salute to Thomas Duane "Tiny" Lister Jr., a.k.a. Debo, a.k.a. Zeus, who passed away in 2020 as a result of complications from COVID-19. One of millions lost to the dreadful virus.
[3] Think more his triumphant, horn-heavy score for
Batman (1989) than his stereotypical “bouncy” sound in
Beetlejuice or
Men in Black.
