When the United States and British Empire were equal economically and militarily?

US and UK have equal power? When?

  • 1812-1815, at the War of 1812 and Napoleonic War

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1846-1848, at the Mexican-American War

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • 1861-1865, at the American Civil War

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • 1895-1898, at Venezuelan border crisis and Spanish-American War

    Votes: 41 30.6%
  • World War I

    Votes: 49 36.6%
  • 1918-1939, at Inter-war Period

    Votes: 31 23.1%
  • World War II

    Votes: 3 2.2%
  • Before 1812 / After 1945

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I have another opinion (please explain)

    Votes: 2 1.5%

  • Total voters
    134
Man, I wish I could have that book. :eek:

Very good read, if rather old by now and probably supplemented with better material in many specifics.

But the general stuff it talks about is enormously relevant to understanding both history - and what kind of turns PODs will take in alternate history, because the kind of issues OTL France struggled with will be there unless your POD changes them, for instance.

And geography plays a significant - not all dominating, but significant - role in shaping what happens and doesn't. France's OTL decisions on expansion is not a result of French stupidity, for instance. So "What if France focused on the navy and India?" has to face the reasons why France didn't - and what made that the case.

Now that's one problem: I was referring to British Empire, which includes India and White Dominions. Therefore the actual economic outcome of the entire Empire was much greater than what was stated on the book.
Not sure how much so in these categories. I don't have statistics to argue one way or another, however, beyond just manufacturing production (which Jasen beat me to posting).
 
It's a cool book.

It does actual list India in another chart for relative share of manufacturing output. It's not that significant by the time the U.S. catches the U.K. The dominions aren't listed but they likely wouldn't make the difference either.

shares.JPG

Actually they do matter quite a lot, Canada, Australia and NZ had a combined population of 14 million in 1914 compared to Great Britain's* 42 million or precisely 1/3rd and they had a similar per capita income. Though their economies were more focused on resource extraction rather than industry than Britain's but then so was the US. The White Dominions alone gave the British Empire another decade of superiority of the US. My personal time line is the US overtook Great Britain in 1905, Great Britain plus the Dominions in 1915 and the British Empire in 1925. Not precisely accurate but it gives you a clue.



*not including Ireland
 
Actually they do matter quite a lot, Canada, Australia and NZ had a combined population of 14 million in 1914 compared to Great Britain's* 42 million or precisely 1/3rd and they had a similar per capita income. Though their economies were more focused on resource extraction rather than industry than Britain's but then so was the US. The White Dominions alone gave the British Empire another decade of superiority of the US. My personal time line is the US overtook Great Britain in 1905, Great Britain plus the Dominions in 1915 and the British Empire in 1925. Not precisely accurate but it gives you a clue.

*not including Ireland

And your source for this (underlined) is what?
 
World War I, though economically it wasn't until post-war the US overtook the British Empire (not the same as the United Kingdom) and it wasn't until WW2 that it overtook economically but by 1918 the balance had shifted in favour of the US due to Britain's bankrupt state. In 1914 a US-British war would have been a stalemate with Britain triumphant at sea and blockading North America but the US conquering Canada. By 1930 the US would beat the UK in a long war due to greater financial and industrial resources making up for a smaller pre-war military.

Yeah the Royal navy could really blockade several hundred ports and thousands of miles of coastline while also keeping ships in Britain in case the French/Germans tried something.

They could cause massive disruption but I seriously doubt that they could create a full blockade.
 
Yeah the Royal navy could really blockade several hundred ports and thousands of miles of coastline while also keeping ships in Britain in case the French/Germans tried something.

They could cause massive disruption but I seriously doubt that they could create a full blockade.

As someone who has made the argument that the Royal Navy could deal with the US navy even in the context of a US-with-the-CP, I second this.

Britain prevailing at sea? Definitely possible. Britain simply sealing off the US? Infeasible and not worth it.
 
The atlantic would be messy as hell with raiders from both sides breaking through and getting loose on some of the busiest water lanes in the world.
 

Jasen777

Donor
The White Dominions alone gave the British Empire another decade of superiority of the US.

That may if we had a better indicator of total economic output, but going by the manufacturing numbers....

In 1900, the U.K.+ India is 20.2% compared to the 23.6% for the U.S. It's not clear where the dominions are on the chart, but in any case Europe+U.S.+Japan+China+India is already 95.9%, leaving only 4.1% for the rest of the world (all of Latin America, etc.) It doesn't seem at all likely that the dominions make up the difference by 1900.
 
Overall I think its the Interwar period.

Pre WWI the Empire stood firm (and industrial output is important, but not all that counts ;))

During WWI the US did not actually have enough military power (just potential)

After WWI the Empire began to decline and US was stil in the rise (even though the "crisis" hit)
 
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