When is the latest the old world could have found the new?

What's the latest feasible time the old world could have discovered the new and vice versa, without a huge change in the development of technology? Obviously, this would delay technological advances, but even with this there comes a point when humanity cannot miss the fact that there is another giant landmass, not so very far away.
 
1500's at latest. Advances in ship-making,the need for an alternate route to the Spice Islands,Portuguese navigators and even the direction of the Atlantic itself all but guarantees that the Americas will be discovered not too soon after Columbus. The Basque were fishing off the Coast of Newfoundland before Columbus and the collapse of Greenland colony was barely a century old. Europeans know there's a large landmass out there,there's legends about Avalon,Hy-Brasil,Fortunate Isles,Atlantis and Hyperborea, all islands or continents to the west. So,widespread discovery will take place in the 16th century or sooner. Whether or not,it makes Spain dominate for that century depends on the discoverer. Could be Genoa or one of the other Italian City-States,could be one of the Scandinavian countries trying to rediscover Vinland or could be the Portuguese. Frankly,I'm surprised there wasn't a great discovery of the Americas before Columbus considering the advancements made in the 1400's in terms of ship-building and navigation.
 
What's the latest feasible time the old world could have discovered the new and vice versa, without a huge change in the development of technology? Obviously, this would delay technological advances, but even with this there comes a point when humanity cannot miss the fact that there is another giant landmass, not so very far away.
I guess the early 1500s. The Portuguese found Brazil by accident if I'm not wrong. So one of the spicetrade ships will reach it eventually. Afterwards it is only a matter of time to explore the Caribbean.

This, considering Columbus got no support from anyone and OTL remains the same. If, lets say Iberia is dominated by the Moors like in someones timeline I have looked upon, it might be after a longer period.
 
The Basque were fishing off the Coast of Newfoundland before Columbus and the collapse of Greenland colony was barely a century old.

I do wonder who knew what, or maybe who cared about what in order to string it all together. Did the Portuguese know that the Scandinavians were in Greenland, and if they did would they have cared given they were going south? Did Columbus know that Basque and Bristol fishermen were off Canada, and if so how did that factor into his proposal to the Spanish crown?
 
I would not be surprised if Basque or Bristol fishing vessels were watering on Newfoundland in the late 15th Century. The absolute latest I could see the "secret" getting out is 1550 or so.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
I would not be surprised if Basque or Bristol fishing vessels were watering on Newfoundland in the late 15th Century. The absolute latest I could see the "secret" getting out is 1550 or so.

Spain had a minister called something like "Minister of Fisheries Terra Nova". It was a tax position collecting taxes on the huge fishing haul being brought into NW ports of Spain. People knew land (islands) were to the west. Whether they new their was such a large land mass is the question.

As to the latest, the Portuguese would have found Brazil within 20 years of Columbus, depending upon circumstances and butterflies. The fastest way around the horn of Africa is to sail WAY to the west, then turn back east. It was inevitable one of these trips would hit Brazil. IOTL, it was 1500 when the Portuguese found the Amazon. ITTL, it might vary either way by a bit.
 
For the longest time on maps you had an island refereed to as "Frisland" to the south of Greenland. If anyone wanted to conquer or even explore this land. They could easily stumble onto the New World.
 
Bristol sent out expeditions to find Hy Brasil, a mythical island west of Ireland, in 1480 and 1481 and it is possible that John Cabot's 1497 expedition to Newfoundland built upon these voyages.
 
I'd agree that without major changes to the political or cultural environment Europeans will discover the Americas by the early sixteenth century. The twin drivers being fishing fleets and a route to the Spice Islands.

Demand for fish was boosted by Catholic fasting doctrines. Maybe an earlier Reformation could reduce this. Islamic Spain conquering the Basque country and no Reconquistida sic) would help though Bristol fishermen could still be active off Newfoundland.

Demand for spices is harder to eliminate but with Spain in Islamic hands it's harder to launch exploration fleets. Still possible from Atlantic France or Britain though.

The Mongol invasion of Europe was halted by the Khan (Ogotai?) dying and the Horde returning to Mongolia to vote for his successor. Have that delayed and the damage done to Europe's economy even without a wholesale occupation might delay the Age of Exploration. I also wonder if spices traveling along the Silk road could be cheaper than via the Islamic routes?
 

Maoistic

Banned
Read Jack D. Forbes' "The American Discovery of Europe" and Edmundo Gorman's "The Invention of America", rethink your whole historical worldview based on those books and then try to come back with an offensive thread title like this.
 
Read Jack D. Forbes' "The American Discovery of Europe" and Edmundo Gorman's "The Invention of America", rethink your whole historical worldview based on those books and then try to come back with an offensive thread title like this.
I did say and vice versa in the brief, but as a title that would have been a bit long. American boats were simply not as capable as there European counterparts at the time that I believe it would be relatively unlikely if the world developed similarly to the way it had that it would be America that would become "the old world" to its inhabitants following there discovery of Eurasia and Africa.
 
Read Jack D. Forbes' "The American Discovery of Europe" and Edmundo Gorman's "The Invention of America", rethink your whole historical worldview based on those books and then try to come back with an offensive thread title like this.
Why not mention the book 1421 while you're at it... while Forbes is right about Vikings and such, his ideas regarding Native Americans traveling to Europe is preposterous and shouldn't be promoted on a website like this.
 

Maoistic

Banned
Why not mention the book 1421 while you're at it... while Forbes is right about Vikings and such, his ideas regarding Native Americans traveling to Europe is preposterous and shouldn't be promoted on a website like this.
Why? Can't imagine naked savage cannibals developing ships?
 

Maoistic

Banned
I did say and vice versa in the brief, but as a title that would have been a bit long. American boats were simply not as capable as there European counterparts at the time that I believe it would be relatively unlikely if the world developed similarly to the way it had that it would be America that would become "the old world" to its inhabitants following there discovery of Eurasia and Africa.
I'll just repeat what I said above:
Why? Can't imagine naked savage cannibals developing ships?
 
Imagine it? Certainly, however American culture and developments did not go towards ships capable of Atlantic voyage OTL and as one of the prequisites was that of similar technological advance, I think your point does not stand.
 

Maoistic

Banned
Imagine it? Certainly, however American culture and developments did not go towards ships capable of Atlantic voyage OTL and as one of the prequisites was that of similar technological advance, I think your point does not stand.
Except it did. How the heck do you think the Caribbean and Greenland were populated?
 
The currents partly make it incredibly unlikely. Their boats also could make small scale voyages, such as island hopping, but they weren't able to build boats of scale. Canada to Greenland is very different from the Atlantic coast to Europe.
 
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