When/how exactly did cavalry die out?

ChaoticBrilliance

ChaoticBrilliance

In books talking about the development of armor as a replacement for horse driven cavalry post-WW1, they never specify when horse cavalry was fully phased out of militarized, especially in Europe.

One can assume by a certain time period everything will be fully mechanized, but what if you are writing an alternate WW1 or no WW1 timeline? Does cavalry remain a strong factor in battles or does it get phased out as well, just slower?
 

Redbeard

Banned
The Royal Danish Army still has a squadron of mounted hussars :)
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Redbeard

Banned
It didn't just happen overnight, but probably started already when Swiss mercenaries found out that sticking together in tight formation and bristling with a lot of pointy things was a good way to defy arrogant knights in shining armour. Next came musketeers with bayonets – now even simple famer boys with a little training could withstand the finest cavalry on the battlefield.


Most armies still fielded substantial numbers of cavalry by WWI, if not for other reasons then because cavalry still was the best way to do a recon. A few weeks into WWI the fronts had stiffened however and cavalry fought dismounted for the rest of the war.


The exception was the East Front where you never had a coherent frontline like in the west. In the following Russian revolution huge bodies of cavalry played an important role – not so much as traditional cavalry charging with sabers (although that was also done), but more like mounted infantry with great mobility.


In the interwar years the British Army was just about the only one to abandon the horse, because British agriculture more than elsewhere had replaced horses with tractors. At the start of WWII a standard German Infantry Division still had mounted squadrons for recon and the Red Army complete Cavalry Divisions. Both the Germans and the Soviets for all of WWII were heavily reliant on horses for logistics.


The WWII Eastern Front probably held the last examples of large scale cavalry charges – they were all mowed down by artillery and MG fire. I once read an account written in the interwar years by some cavalry officer, he seriously claimed that charging cavalry would run down MG positions before the MGs could stop the cavalry! Perhaps the Soviets had read that guy – only to learn that you shall not believe everything you read.
 
BiteNibbleChomp

BiteNibbleChomp

I think it happened in a similar way to how militaries phase out a type of tank - you keep the units round but as the equipment (in this case horses) die, then you don't bother replacing them. Of course that is a very generalised way to think of it but I think it fits the purpose.

Cavalry in the traditional sense was pretty much obsolete by the middle of the US Civil War. Too much lead was going into the field at any one time for a horse to have a good chance of getting through. This was first because of there being lots of muskets, then machine guns and finally planes. As already mentioned they were still used in 1914 and most armies still relied on a substantial horse-based component in 1939.

But in 1939 you didn't have more than a few "charges" in the sense of knights going out with swords and smashing into the enemy line. Just like an obsolescent tank, they were used for different purposes (like the Pzkw II being a recon vehicle from '41 on). So 'cavalry' were still important for supply, at least for a while.

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You also asked about no-WWI. Assuming a PoD after the industrial age, the car was eventually going to be invented. Or something similar anyway. As soon as that happens, you have a better alternative to a horse because it is faster and easier to stick armour on. Wait 20 years and horses will be retired. (This is even true if guns don't get invented, although the thought of a car with a giant sword on the front is a bit ridiculous!)

In WWI cavalry was decided to be a waste (at least in the west) within about three weeks of fighting. This is evident in orders being given for the Gallipoli landing (8 months into the conflict) that "light horse" units were to leave their horses behind. So as soon as a war with that level of tech exists, horses will disappear. Which means that to keep them, 1865 is pretty much the last year that can have conflict in it.

- BNC
 

Saphroneth

Banned
BiteNibbleChomp said:
In WWI cavalry was decided to be a waste (at least in the west) within about three weeks of fighting. This is evident in orders being given for the Gallipoli landing (8 months into the conflict) that "light horse" units were to leave their horses behind. So as soon as a war with that level of tech exists, horses will disappear. Which means that to keep them, 1865 is pretty much the last year that can have conflict in it.
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False, I'm afraid.
There were regiments of cavalry doing sterling service right through to the end of WW1 - they were always useful for mobility, the problem was that barbed wire could stop them. Some British cav regiments trained their horses to jump barbed wire, and that allowed for some good use - even in the charge.

Then there's the Soviet cavalry units of WW2 - they were very useful simply because they had great strategic mobility, able to move dozens of miles at right angles to normal lines of communication. They weren't strictly fighting on horseback by that time, but they were certainly acting as horseback troops over long distances.


Basically, cavalry stuck around a lot longer than people think, and was phased out of frontline service in the West due to abundance of vehicles rather than because cavalry was "worse than infantry" per se.
It was certainly still useful after 1865.
 

Creidiki

Mounted troops are stiill in service, but cavalry, as in soldiers who fight mounted, went the way of dodo-bird when repeating rifle with smokeless powder came into service.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Creidiki said:
Mounted troops are stiill in service, but cavalry, as in soldiers who fight mounted, went the way of dodo-bird when repeating rifle with smokeless powder came into service.
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False. WW1.

The first contact between the two armies occurred on 21 August, when a British bicycle reconnaissance team encountered a German unit near Obourg; and Private John Parr became the first British soldier to be killed in the war.[15] The first substantial action occurred on the morning of 22 August. At 6:30 a.m., the 4th Dragoon Guards laid an ambush for a patrol of German lancers outside the village of Casteau, to the north-east of Mons. When the Germans spotted the trap and fell back, a troop of the dragoons, led by Captain Hornby gave chase, followed by the rest of his squadron, all with drawn sabres. The retreating Germans led the British to a larger force of lancers, whom they promptly charged and Captain Hornby became the first British soldier to kill an enemy in the Great War, fighting on horseback with sword against lance. After a further pursuit of a few miles, the Germans turned and fired upon the British cavalry, at which point the dragoons dismounted and opened fire. Drummer Edward Thomas is reputed to have fired the first shot of the war for the British Army, hitting a German trooper.[16][a]
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ED: and as RR has noted there were others later on.
 

RodentRevolution

Banned
Creidiki said:
Mounted troops are stiill in service, but cavalry, as in soldiers who fight mounted, went the way of dodo-bird when repeating rifle with smokeless powder came into service.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Izbushensky

August 24, 1942

Well that is generally regarded as the last successful mounted charge against regular troops but there may have been other unrecorded actions by anti-partisan units. It is also worth noting there was a divisional sized cavalry charge in the Spanish Civil War, a number in World War 1 and at least one in the Boer War.

However the main use of cavalry was for its off road mobility by World War 2.
 
DrakonFin

DrakonFin

Saphroneth said:
False, I'm afraid.
There were regiments of cavalry doing sterling service right through to the end of WW1 - they were always useful for mobility, the problem was that barbed wire could stop them. Some British cav regiments trained their horses to jump barbed wire, and that allowed for some good use - even in the charge.

Then there's the Soviet cavalry units of WW2 - they were very useful simply because they had great strategic mobility, able to move dozens of miles at right angles to normal lines of communication. They weren't strictly fighting on horseback by that time, but they were certainly acting as horseback troops over long distances.


Basically, cavalry stuck around a lot longer than people think, and was phased out of frontline service in the West due to abundance of vehicles rather than because cavalry was "worse than infantry" per se.
It was certainly still useful after 1865.
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Also the Finnish Army had in the 1930s a regiment of cavalry and a regiment of dragoons that were made into the Cavalry Brigade during WWII. Prior to the Continuation War, the cavalry was even still issued sabres as service weapons. Fighting from horseback was still trained in the 30s. In practice, though, in the Continuation War the Finnish cavalry fought as mounted infantry, and during the war the horses were slowly phased out in favour of bicycles. The Finnish cavalry unit was in 1930s seen as an elite formation and the cavalry fought in WWII with distinction, taking successfully part in many decisive battles. The names of the cavalry and dragoon units were retained after the war, the last soldiers were dismounted in 1947. Horse haulage, though, was used (and conscripts were trained for it) by the Finnish artillery until 1971. The Finnish military only officially stopped using horses in 1993. The last Finnish dragoon unit, the Dragoon Squadron in Lappeenranta, is now being disestablished this year.

Finnish cavalry just before WWII, from the Jaeger Platoon website:

Cavalry_HRR_01.jpg
 
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Creidiki

Dragoons move horseback and fight on foot. Cavalry moves and fights horseback and fighting horseback was suicide after infantry was armed with bolt action rifles shooting smokeless powder rounds. WWi just made it plain and clear for everyone to see.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Creidiki said:
Dragoons move horseback and fight on foot. Cavalry moves and fights horseback and fighting horseback was suicidal after infantry was armed with bolt action firled shooting smokeles powder rounds. WWi just made it plain and clear for everyone to see.
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False. Again.
There were cavalry charges that did good work in WW1, including performing in ways which could not be equalled otherwise, and of course there were successful charges in the Boer Wars.
 

Deleted member 94680

The Nazis formed Cossack Cavalry units in 1943.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XV_SS_Cossack_Cavalry_Corps

After the ACW most Cavalry units were in fact mounted infantry as opposed to true Cavalry fighting on horseback in the napoleonic sense. There were noted exceptions, obviously, but most rode to battlefield then dismounted to fight.

But the last mounted charge of WWII was in 1945, so saying that it was dead by the end of WWI is incorrect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Schoenfeld
 

RodentRevolution

Banned
IndefatigableRN said:
Wasn't there a massive cavalry charge at Megiddo in 1918...?
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Well it was not huge but it was important

https://www.awm.gov.au/blog/2007/10/30/the-charge-of-the-4th-light-horse-brigade-at-beersheba/

There is also the action at Huj to consider where 170 Yeomanry cavalry faced around 300 infantry with 6 machine guns and artillery and took 11 guns (which may have been the lot) and 4 of the machine gun plus 70 prisoners for 26 dead and forty men wounded and the loss of about a hundred horses. It would have been hard for 170 infantry to take such a position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Huj
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
The captain in command of the green beret A team knew horsemanship in civilian life, but, IIRC, the test of his team - a dozen men? - picked it up as they went with major help from the locals.
 
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