When did the French develop so much cheese?

[Tanc49]

A question struck me recently:
Many Western European nations have a few variants of cheese, even the most food impoverished nations like England has a couple passable cheeses.

But then the French come along and have hundreds of cheeses, with many differences between each of them. It seems rather unique.

Any idea why and when this was developed?

 

[Frrf]

Most European nations have loads of different kinds of cheese, just like most have loads of different kinds of alcohol. Rural isolation, differing climactic and microclimactic conditions, differing cattle (or sheep or goat or buffalo (mozzarella) or whatever) breeds, differing ecologies provodong different bacteria for fermentation. Basically, it was inevitable that you'd get many regionally varied cheeses when cheesemaking was invented and spread so long before strong, stable states and the transport and communicayions infrastructures that come along with them.It had nothing really to do with France in particular, and was something that effected the whole continent.

 

[piratedude]

Yeah its not weird that france has a lot of different cheeses, whats odd is that they (and french cuisine in general) became famous in the culinary world. I think i heard somewhere that has to do with tallyrand but don't hold me to it

 

[The Professor]

A question struck me recently:
Many Western European nations have a few variants of cheese, even the most food impoverished nations like England has a couple passable cheeses.

But then the French come along and have hundreds of cheeses, with many differences between each of them. It seems rather unique.

Any idea why and when this was developed?

England isn't food impoverished. It has just as many varieties of cheese, sausage, beer, etc as other countries.

 

[finch]

Many Western European nations have a few variants of cheese, even the most food impoverished nations like England has a couple passable cheeses.

I know this site is dedicated to alternative history, but I don't believe that includes alternative statistics. Britain produces over 700 different cheeses. France ,less than 600 verities. All over Europe Cheese was a locally produced product, that is why there are so many. Globally mass production has reduce the numbers ,but in the UK there has actually been an increase in small local producers. In terms of actual quantity, I believe the Americans produce the largest tonnage.

 

[CountPeter]

A question struck me recently:
Many Western European nations have a few variants of cheese, even the most food impoverished nations like England has a couple passable cheeses.

But then the French come along and have hundreds of cheeses, with many differences between each of them. It seems rather unique.

Any idea why and when this was developed?

To further elaborate on the above, the idea of "English Cuisine is limited and bad" has largely been a propoganda thing. A suprising amount of beloved international cuisine is English in origin, particularly in the realms of pastries, curries and "roasts".

 

[Xgentis]

To further elaborate on the above, the idea of "English Cuisine is limited and bad" has largely been a propoganda thing. A suprising amount of beloved international cuisine is English in origin, particularly in the realms of pastries, curries and "roasts".

I disagree I went there and found english cuisine as bad as I was told.

 

[The Professor]

I disagree I went there and found english cuisine as bad as I was told.

What were you told?
Where did you go to eat, what did you eat, and how much were you spending?

 

[Tanc49]

I know this site is dedicated to alternative history, but I don't believe that includes alternative statistics. Britain produces over 700 different cheeses. France is less the 600 verities. All over Europe Cheese was a locally produced product, that is why there are so many. Globally mass production did reduce the numbers but in the UK there has actually been an increase in small local producers. In terms of actual quantity, I believe the Americans produce the largest tonnage.

To further elaborate on the above, the idea of "English Cuisine is limited and bad" has largely been a propoganda thing. A suprising amount of beloved international cuisine is English in origin, particularly in the realms of pastries, curries and "roasts".

I speak from my own experience living all over Europe, including several years in the UK and more in Ireland.
Wikipedia might tell you there are 600 cheeses, but if you go in a British supermarket, you'll be lucky if they have anything else than cheddar.
It's not just quantity either, German, polish and Anglo Saxon cheeses tend to be much blander.

I'd also dispute curries as from British origin, just like I'd dispute the fact they'd invented the roast.

EDIT: to be fair, Stinking Bishop is OK as a cheese, but it pales in comparison to French, and let's include Italian and Spanish quality

 

[CountPeter]

I speak from my own experience living all over Europe, including several years in the UK and more in Ireland.
Wikipedia might tell you there are 600 cheeses, but if you go in a British supermarket, you'll be lucky if they have anything else than cheddar.
It's not just quantity either, German, polish and Anglo Saxon cheeses tend to be much blander.

The bold genuinely makes me think you haven't been to a British supermarket. As someone who lives in England, has been all around the isles, it is sort of like someone saying "I have been to America, and they don't have a president". I am not being hyperbolic either, it is something that just plain not true.

Literally across the road from me is a small corner shop that has a cheese aisle.

Edit: I missed earlier your statement on north euro cheeses being bland.
I am now wondering if you have eaten any of those cheeses.

The med countries have excellent cheeses, but they are usually far more subtle compared to the very strong northern cheeses (i.e. smoked cheeses, a greater love of blue cheeses).
An example that people who eat cheese will know, med cheeses are, when featured in board fashion, usually paired with breads, salty vegetables etc. North Euro cheese is commonly paired with fruit to compliment the strength.

I'd also dispute curries as from British origin, just like I'd dispute the fact they'd invented the roast.

I didn't say we invented either, but that a lot of the international favourites are British born (like the Tikka Massala).

 

[Milites]

It developed as a national bulwark against totalitarianism.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Time traveling Wisconsinites. Your thanks is reward enough for our services!

 

[SeaCambrian]

To further elaborate on the above, the idea of "English Cuisine is limited and bad" has largely been a propoganda thing. A suprising amount of beloved international cuisine is English in origin, particularly in the realms of pastries, curries and "roasts".

People think British cuisine is bad because many of the good dishes in British cuisine are seen not as British, but as generic dishes that everybody has. That, and Britain, similar to the US, adopted processed food relatively early.

 

[The Professor]

@Tanc49 every British Supermarket has a cheese isle, even the small ones, where you will get at least 3 Cheddars, Red Leicester, Double Gloucester, Cheshire, and Wensleydale. I strongly agree with CountPeter that I doubt you've been in one, at least in the last 15 years. All the large supermarkets also have a deli counter that has more types of cheese.
Now if you want more varieties you are indeed better off with a local deli or cheesemonger but you won't get the quantity that supermarkets deal in.

 

[Queeney]

England isn't food impoverished. It has just as many varieties of cheese, sausage, beer, etc as other countries.

Possibly, but England is definitely at the bottom of the development table when it comes to coffee.

 

[gladiator8085]

Time traveling Wisconsinites. Your thanks is reward enough for our services!

I agree with you. of course, that's with admitting that I was born in Madison and have spent about half my life in Wisconsin. Go Pack Go

 

[The Professor]

Possibly, but England is definitely at the bottom of the development table when it comes to coffee.

What, even below Norway and Finland?

 

[Vuu]

The French are culinary nationalists and managed to make their cheeses famous. Brits on the other hand weren't, resulting in most of their traditional food being forgotten, and then being considered bad (and the fact that it's just a part of continental European cuisine which is relatively samey everywhere, while France is unique in being a merger between mediterranean and continental)

Such things are really different for every region, heck, every cheese-producing household will result in slightly different cheese

If the British royals threw money at outrageous feasts like the French did (which probably helped to popularize many local regional cuisines and make them fashionable) it would probably be another deal entirely

 

[CountPeter]

People think British cuisine is bad because many of the good dishes in British cuisine are seen not as British, but as generic dishes that everybody has. That, and Britain, similar to the US, adopted processed food relatively early.

That isn't quite accirate either. Britain's reputation with food was fine untill WW2, when GIs came to Rationing Britain. Rationing food was disgusting, but a lot of the stereotypes surrounding it are the driving force today (notably, pre WW2 English baking was a big deal in both France and the US).

@Tanc49 every British Supermarket has a cheese isle, even the small ones, where you will get at least 3 Cheddars, Red Leicester, Double Gloucester, Cheshire, and Wensleydale. I strongly agree with CountPeter that I doubt you've been in one, at least in the last 15 years. All the large supermarkets also have a deli counter that has more types of cheese.
Now if you want more varieties you are indeed better off with a local deli or cheesemonger but you won't get the quantity that supermarkets deal in.

I would say you are at least looking at 30 years tbh.

 

[stevej713]

French food = good and British food = bad is one of those silly cultural stereotypes that has been particularly resilient over the past century. In my experience, supermarkets across the Western World are not terribly different from each other. You're likely to find a similarly broad selection of meats, cheeses, liquors and chocolates in the UK as in France, the US, or Germany. I was particularly disappointed to find that Dutch supermarkets largely had the same selection of chocolates as in the US - mass-produced candies for the most part and a smaller section for higher-quality chocolates. The sort of chocolate that the Netherlands is famous for could mostly be found in the tourist areas.

This is a prime example of global trade. Before the Marshall Plan, one would be pretty disappointed at the lack of local selection. Yes, you would likely find a different type of cheese in each town, but having access to all the different types in one place would be extremely difficult without sealed packages, refrigerators and trucks, not to mention the fact that livestock breeding was much more restricted in scope back in those days, making cheese and other food products less tasty on average.