When did austrians stop identifying as germans

A recent post i made made want to ask this question. We know that austrians have always considered themselves german but in recent times they do not anymore. A theory of mine is that after ww2 being german wasn't Ideal for obvious reasons, What are your toughts?
 
After WW2 when they wanted to distance themselves from the at the time perceived militaristic nature of German society. Also they didn't want to be split in two like Germany and used their supposed "difference" to declare themselves he first victims if the nazis.
 
After WW2 when they wanted to distance themselves from the at the time perceived militaristic nature of German society. Also they didn't want to be split in two like Germany and used their supposed "difference" to declare themselves the first victims if the Nazis.

Even though, ironically, Hitler was originally Austrian, so technically the Nazis were their fault.

How does that joke go again? "The Austrians are the most successful con-artists in history: they convinced the world that Beethoven was Austrian and that Hitler was German."
 
How does that joke go again? "The Austrians are the most successful con-artists in history: they convinced the world that Beethoven was Austrian and that Hitler was German."
Yep, they also convinced the world the Germans started WW1. And they also married everyone and through a series of unfortunate events (not for them) they inherited nearly all of Europe. I just don't know how they do it.
 
Yep, they also convinced the world the Germans started WW1. And they also married everyone and through a series of unfortunate events (not for them) they inherited nearly all of Europe. I just don't know how they do it.

The Austrians: the Karma Houdinis of Europe. Causing everyone's problems and getting away with it for centuries.
 
After WW2 when they wanted to distance themselves from the at the time perceived militaristic nature of German society. Also they didn't want to be split in two like Germany and used their supposed "difference" to declare themselves he first victims if the nazis.

Which is funny being that an austrian is no more different from a saxon than a bavarian.
 
Which is funny being that an austrian is no more different from a saxon than a bavarian.

Well - thats not true - a bavarian and an Austrian are much closer than both are to Saxons :D

And technically - Adolf was born Austrian - but he had to go to Germany to make career ;) - we are proud to have given our worst to Germany

The original question is quite difficult to answer - you first have to determine when Germany became Germany - or better when the Germans think of themselves as Germans - that happened IMHO only during the Napoleonic wars - but even then the members of different germanic "tribes" identified themselves (to varying degrees) as Bavarians, Hesses, Prussians, ... whatever. The "german" identity as a national identity (Cultural and language did happen much earlier - and we are still consider ourself as "Germans" in THAT regard) only really became a "political" factor in the 1848 revolution - the "Habsburg/Austrian" Germany still probably did not think of themselves as Germans first (as probably did the majority of people in OTHEr countries - actually I think the nationalistic streak was more a thing of the "elites" than the people - German people were probybly less nationalistic than Italians, Hungarians and other people at the time. When in 1866 Austria was "forced" to leave Germany , I assume tehre was no real German identity - just a cultural and geman language sphere. Maybe in 1866 the "germans" in Austria increased to think of themselves as Germans - because they were no longer members of the "political" German sphere. Its when you start to appreciate things you lost, while they were not important as long as you had them.

Then came 1918 - the Habsburg Empire - which served as political focus for its people (of which the German-Austrians were of course the most noble - sigh) - ceased to exist. At this moment the German-Austrians lost their identity and sought another one - so they naturally shifted their attention the "Germany" - and while they were forbidden to join Germany by the Entente they started to "feel" more German - because they could not be Germans ;)

Even in 1938 - I don't doubt that a majority of Austrians would vote for joining Germany in a free election in 1938 - Hitler did not "trust" the Austrians to do so - so he "rigged" the vote (a bit ;) ).

So you can say that in 1938 (the 20 years befor and up to 1945 - maybe some even today) Austrians felt German (but they still would insist that they had not much in common with - most - other Germans) - and from 1945 we wanted to distance ourself from Nazi Germany - and the easiest way was to embrace an "Austrian" identity, but thats only "political" in our heart we still are "germans" - maybe we consider Austria as the better Germany , but still we are family ;)

BTW - Beet hoven is a nice example - true he was NOT born in Austria - he hails from Bonn - then part of electoral Cologne. BUT he spent almost all of his adult and clearly most of his whole live in Vienna. In addition his family (fathers ide) hails from Mechelen - then part of the AUSTRIAN netherlands. So you can consider him with some justification as predominately Austrian.

I believe most of you consider Mozart as Austrian, but he just was not: he was from Salzburg - during his lifetime an independent nation ;) - It just happens that Salzburg is NOW Austrian - and he spent a lot of time in Vienna...

Or think of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe - he is famous for living in Weimar - just he was born in Frankfurt - its not important where you are born - its important where you live...

So in the end - I think Austrians are still German -we just don't admit it :D
 
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