What's more likely - a Germanized or Slavicized Hungary?

[Mr_Fanboy]

So, without overstating my case about the similarities here, it can be said that both the Magyars and the Bulgars were Central Asian peoples that migrated to Europe in the early Middle Ages and established powerful states. The Bulgars eventually accepted the Christianity, a Slavic language, and many other Slavic customs, becoming the Bulgarians as we know them today. On the other hand, the Magyar, though they did eventually convert to Christianity, resisted the same level of assimilation as the Bulgars. Though both Latin and German were official administrative languages for some time, it never caught on permanently with the Hungarian people. Hungarian is one of the few non-Indo-European languages of Europe.

However, if the Hungarians had assimilated more thoroughly into European culture and adopted some form of Indo-European language, what would it have been - a Germanic language or a Slavic language? Hungary was and is in close proximity to both German and Slavic peoples. So, with a POD after the establishment of the Principality of Hungary in 895, which is more likely - a Germanized or Slavicized Hungary?

 

[Gloss]

I'd think mostly Slavic if it stays independent, although in such a situation in which they would be more prone to assimilation I'd think the Germans would fare better against them, leading probably to a big German speaking community along the Danube up to today Budapest and generally North-Western Hungary.

 

[Eivind]

What language was mostly spoken there prior to the arrival of the Hungarians? The area was controlled by the Avars (which as far as I understand were probably Turkish or Monglian speakers), but were they ever lingustically dominant in the area, or might it be that most people spoke a variety of Slavic?

 

[TruthfulPanda]

What ignorance in this thread ... in their wanderings Hungarians never even got a whiff of Asia ...
Actually it is surprising that Hungarians kept their language and did not start to speak Slavic, the language of the locals.
Apparently the local Slavs were not numerous enough as to linguistically assimilate the newcomers, i.e. what had happened to the Bulgars.

 

[frustrated progressive]

What ignorance in this thread ... in their wanderings Hungarians never even got a whiff of Asia ...
Actually it is surprising that Hungarians kept their language and did not start to speak Slavic, the language of the locals.
Apparently the local Slavs were not numerous enough as to linguistically assimilate the newcomers, i.e. what had happened to the Bulgars.

the Kuban steppes don't count as asia?

 

[TruthfulPanda]

1 - the Kuban Steppe only counts as Asia if you use the not very popular Europe-Border running along the Kuma-Manych Depression. Most modern definitions use either the main range of the Caucasus, or the isthmus between Georgia and Azerbaijan. Either places the Kuban firmly inside Europe
2 - IIRC the Hungarians did not stray as far south as the Kuban anyway - but I may be wrong.

 

[Mr_Fanboy]

What ignorance in this thread ... in their wanderings Hungarians never even got a whiff of Asia ...

FWIW, I meant to write "Central Eurasian", but my phone must've autocorrected or something.

 

[TruthfulPanda]

Hungarians are north-east Eurpean
Bulgars (or at least their core) were Turkic so in their case Central Asia - even Mongolia - applies

 

[Mr_Fanboy]

Wow, equal split in the voting.

 

[CountDVB]

Given the Magyars came from the Urals (unless I’m horribly mistaken), I figure they’d probably undergo a form of slavicization.

 

[Achaemenid Rome]

Hungary was temporarily Germanic IOTL under the Gepids, so that would be more likely, but either scenario is plausible.

 

[Mikestone8]

I'd think mostly Slavic if it stays independent, although in such a situation in which they would be more prone to assimilation I'd think the Germans would fare better against them, leading probably to a big German speaking community along the Danube up to today Budapest and generally North-Western Hungary.

Iirc there was such a minority even OTL.

I once saw a map of 19th Century AH, showing several enclaves of German population in western Hungary, esp on the Danube. So it probably wouldn't take too much change to make this bigger, giving a continuous belt of German population all the way from Vienna to Budapest and maybe even further.

 

[The Professor]

The area used Slavic as a lingua franca under the Avars so if the Magyars do assimilate or repeat the Avar conquest then Slavic with later pockets of German and Vlach seems most likely.

 

[SenatorErnesto]

I voted Germanic purely on the assumption that the Austrians could have done more to integrate the Kingdogm of Hungary and its people into the Germanic orb of the HRE and the other Germanic Habsburg holdings...

 

[Hvalrossen]

I think that Hungary would likely be slavicised if independant, but that german migration eastward might germanise Hungary at a later date, especially if due to war or other caused a large portion of the population dies. Hungary has been sparsley populated for a long time.

 

[Gloss]

Iirc there was such a minority even OTL.

I once saw a map of 19th Century AH, showing several enclaves of German population in western Hungary, esp on the Danube. So it probably wouldn't take too much change to make this bigger, giving a continuous belt of German population all the way from Vienna to Budapest and maybe even further.

Outside Transylvania and Slovakia those enclaves appeared later with the conquest of Hungary by Austria from the Ottomans

 

[Wendell]

Depends on the era.

 

[Prism]

I do not see Hungary nor Romania ever becoming Slavicized. Now,Hungary was united with Austria for a long time,so there might would'v been an opportunity for German influences in the Hungarian language,but much like Finnic,Hungarian is a unique language.

 

[The Professor]

I do not see Hungary nor Romania ever becoming Slavicized. Now,Hungary was united with Austria for a long time,so there might would'v been an opportunity for German influences in the Hungarian language,but much like Finnic,Hungarian is a unique language.

The point of the OP is what if the Magyar conquest was like the Bulgar one in that the elite ended up speaking the lingua franca of the area. Compare the Avars who also conquered the Pannonian plain but ended up Slavic.

 

[Eivind]

I do not see Hungary nor Romania ever becoming Slavicized. Now,Hungary was united with Austria for a long time,so there might would'v been an opportunity for German influences in the Hungarian language,but much like Finnic,Hungarian is a unique language.

The unification might easily be butterflied in this timeline.