What would Ungern Von Sternberg have thought of the Nazis?

So just finished reading "The Bloody White Baron" and found it a fascinating look into the adventures of a fanatic. This is entirely hypothetical, but let's presume that somehow Ungern manages to escape Soviet capture and somehow ends up in Germany (according to the book, his plan was to go to Tibet, but let's assume that like OTL this doesn't go well or is planned for a later excursion).

I sincerely doubt he could have had a major impact on history, but I am fascinated by the thought of how he would have interacted with the Nazis.

Theoretically, the Nazis had a lot of things that Ungern would have liked. They loved their sense of spirit and beleived materialism was decadent. Theosophist related organisations held major sway in Nazi Germany leading to fascination with certain eastern cultures like Tibet. They were militarist, rabidly anti-semetic, anti-bolshevik and beleived in an apocalyptic war to reclaim the heart of the west, something that Ungern too would have strongly identified with (although he beleived acording to the book that this would come from the east).

Likewise, Ungern Von Sternberg could have been a major poster boy for the Nazi ideal in an odd sense. Ethnically German, he was a warrior who had dedicated years of his life crusading against the Bolsheviks (having Crusader ancestry too), a crusade ended by being "stabbed in the back" just as the Germans had been in WW1.

On the other hand, it would be easy for anyone to point out that Ungern had fought against the Germans in WW1 in favour of Slavs, and from his perspective the Nazis were ultimately Republicans to a man who seemed to have practically held Monarchism above God.

So. If he survived and somehow ended up in germany, how do you think he would have gotten on with the Nazis?
 
It depends on whether he survives by virtue of being a Japanese puppet/vassal/client or via his own efforts IMHO.
 
Another part of the Jewish Conspiracy to subvert the Monarchies by the Unholy Trinity of Socialism, Liberalism and Nationalism.
I'm not entirely sure about that. I wouldn't rule it out, but he was happy to work alongside Seminov who wanted a constitutional monarchy.
It depends on whether he survives by virtue of being a Japanese puppet/vassal/client or via his own efforts IMHO.
What do you mean by this?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
I'm not entirely sure about that. I wouldn't rule it out, but he was happy to work alongside Seminov who wanted a constitutional monarchy.
Well what Semyonov wanted varied from time to time, but from what I understand he and Sternberg were friends. Sternberg's own views are mostly recorded from some letters he sent and from the Interrogation Protocols when he was interrogated by the Reds. From these records he comes out as viewing himself as a Monarchist revolutionary, who was out to restore the fallen empires back to power. He considered socialism, liberalism and nationalism as all movements of destruction and saw the jews as the cultprit.
 
So just finished reading "The Bloody White Baron" and found it a fascinating look into the adventures of a fanatic. This is entirely hypothetical, but let's presume that somehow Ungern manages to escape Soviet capture and somehow ends up in Germany (according to the book, his plan was to go to Tibet, but let's assume that like OTL this doesn't go well or is planned for a later excursion).
That's the book by James Palmer, right? An interesting read, but it's often slammed for heavy sensationalism and numerous factual errors. Ungern is the primary "victim" of this sensationalist attitude, as his eccentricity and flaws were ramped up on very questionable foundations; but various other things: aspects of Buddhism, the Mongolian independence movement, Russian culture etc. were also portrayed in a rather, er, journalistic way.
(OTOH, I think he actually portrays Semenov as at least somewhat better than he was in reality. But I could be wrong.)

He seemingly took Ossendowski's old book - a self-proclaimed work of fiction, and also heavily sensationalist - as not only a real historical source, but a holy grail of sorts.
...

So. If he survived and somehow ended up in germany, how do you think he would have gotten on with the Nazis?

Ungern was, in fact, appropriated by OTL's Nazis as a sort of involuntary poster-boy. But I don't think he would have returned their affection, had he survived to dispute it.

As you mention, Ungern fought on behalf of Russia against Germany in WW1. IIRC, he was outright bitter at the Bolshevik government's conclusion of a separate peace with Germany. There are many things he can be accused off, but German nationalism doesn't seem to be one of them. He was an anti-Semite too, but this doesn't mean that he would have necessarily approved of Hitler's brand of anti-Semitism (to say nothing of other aspects of Nazi ideology). Ungern was probably too much of a strict reactionary to like or work with the Nazis. It's not impossible, but...
 
Well, if you ask me, the only way Sternberg is going to survive until at least 1933 is if the Japanese provide him enough backing (probably via Zhang Zuolin's Japanese-aligned clique) to hold off the Reds.
I don't think he needs to hold off the Reds, or that holding of the Reds is possible. A POD for this could be the mutiny after he was forced to abandon Mongolia. Had he more people at this time, it would be far from impossible for him to have at least reached Tibet.
Well what Semyonov wanted varied from time to time, but from what I understand he and Sternberg were friends. Sternberg's own views are mostly recorded from some letters he sent and from the Interrogation Protocols when he was interrogated by the Reds. From these records he comes out as viewing himself as a Monarchist revolutionary, who was out to restore the fallen empires back to power. He considered socialism, liberalism and nationalism as all movements of destruction and saw the jews as the cultprit.
My point with Seminov was that he was willing to work with nationalists who wanted a degree of democracy (Seminov wanted the Duma whilst Sternberg did not, Seminov was a russian nationalist whilst Sternberg was not). Whilst they were freinds, they did have their disagreements.
 
So oddly, I think I have found half of the answer for this.

So apparently, Sternberg was actually a figure of interest in Nazi Germany in the book "I order! The struggle and tragedy of Baron Ungern Von Sternberg".
So at the very least, Sternberg may have been a bit of a hero in Nazi Germany if he had lived. Whether he would have reciprocated this love is less clear, but it does seem that there were quite a few Monarchists in the germany military which he could have gotten along with.
 
One of the things I enjoy about these boards are the other (meaning other than me, as I am also one) history nerds who know about obscure characters. Ungern Von Sternberg, his life's story is enough to make you think Conan the Barbarian is plausible.
 
Top