Well if they’re neutral then if anything I can see them copying what Spain did IOTL. Even if they do at some point join and play a decent part in ending nazi Germany I don’t think fascism will gain legitimacy. If anything we just wouldn’t lump nazism in with fascism. I highly doubt anyone would let Austria have fascists in power, after this no one will want to hear the words “Austrian” and “fascist/authoritarian” in the same sentence.
What would the post war era look like for a Neutral or Allied Fascist Italy?
- Thread starter ImperialxWarlord
- Start date
Italy joining the Allied Powers and being a major player heavily contributing to the war effort could be a boost to the Fascist Ideology to the world.
Plus with decolonization, since you have nationalist movements in Africa and Asia, I can imagine some groups may adopt Fascist ideology in terms of Authoritarian Right-Wing Nationalism, albeit they are anti-colonial.
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I mean I was thinking its more along the lines of Italy claiming Austria as a puppet state. What Italy does is put someone like Ernst Rudiger Starhemberg in charge, and reinstate the Fatherland Front to power, plus there were tons of Fatherland Front politicians that survived (Albeit in OTL, many former FF politicians ended up forming the moderate conservative Austrian People's Party in post-war Austria). Plus the Fatherland Front fought the Nazis with paramilitaries fighting each other on the streets, albeit they easily folded with Anschluss.
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Not sure how big of a player they would be. I recall in another thread I was reading about fascist Italy that if they were gonna join the allies they’d probably do it later on when it became clear the nazis were done for. So they’d get a seat at the table like the moose wanted but I don’t think they are on the same level as the main members of the allies. So I’m not sure they’ll get a boost. And even if they do I just don’t think it’ll have as much sway in the post war as communism and democracy since the backers of those two ideologies will have far more sway and reach. It would certainly be interesting if they were considered a big part in the war as it really raises a lot of question about what kind of influence Italy will have. After all the main members of the allies got seats on the UN Security Council so I wonder if the UN would. Regardless I don’t think facism is getting too big of a boost.
I don’t think the ideology of a colonial state will become popular amongst former colonies.
Italy can claim it all they want but I don’t think everyone else will let him do that.
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Deleted member 169412
I can see NATO being far more controversial in the US. It's one thing to end up in a bloc with some countries you find slightly disagreeable but who are willing to jump when America says so - it's another thing to find yourself on the same side as literal fascists who don't like liberal democracy if you claim to be defending liberal democracy.
If fascist Italy has a better reputation in such a TL then I don’t see it being too big of an issue. Especially when your enemy in communism. And that’s it Italy is even let in. And I’ve never heard about the UN being controversial at the time for having the USSR as one of the main members.
Deleted member 169412
It wouldn't, though. People will still remember Ethiopia, and Italy will still be trying to colonise Libya.
Deleted member 169412
If I remember correctly the way Italy treated Ethiopia was considered particularly inhumane even for the time, and Libya isn't really that different to what France is doing in Algeria but is still pretty bad and provides an excuse for the West to accuse Italy of mistreating its colonies.
Our main allies were two colonial empires (who’d done alot of bad shit to their colonies too) and the Soviet Union…so yeah I don’t think it’ll be too big of an issue. Especially once propoganda makes them look like the good guys.
I can imaginate USA being quiet fine with Italy. Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yes, USA probably wouldn't allow Italy to enter to NATO but it can still be friend. Portugal wasn't much better in Angola and Mozambique than Italy in Ethoiopia. And Portugal was still allowed to enter to NATO. And USA has happily accepted Pinochet's Chile and Central American military juntas as friends. And USA had good rleationships with Apartheidist South Africa and Saudi Arabia. I don't see fascist Italy being problem. USA just didn't bother regime as long as it was anti-communist. Otherwise they were allowed do whatever they wanted.
I can’t be certain on if they’d let Italy into NATO but I think there’s a case to be made for them being allowed to join if Italy did join the allies (let’s say in 1943) and played a big enough role in the war.
If Japan is still nuked then Italy will probably try to develop nukes. Benito was obsessed with making Italy look like a very large global power. So he will want nukes, and with a decade of trying he would probably get them.
Also is their any timelines on this site where Italy is neutral or joins the allies late in the war, where the Soivets are portrayed in a reasonable light?
Also is their any timelines on this site where Italy is neutral or joins the allies late in the war, where the Soivets are portrayed in a reasonable light?
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Post WWII the US remained socially liberal for a couple decades. But, in foreign policy it went strongly anti Communist. I don't see that changing, unless theres some additional PoD involved. ie: Eisenhower opting for the Democratic party in 1952. & Truman not plunging straight into some bad decisions.
The problem is that Benito was very egotistical and saw Italy as being much more powerful then they really were. He would want Italy to have a more independent forighn policy to make Italy look like they were a superpower even if they wern't. He wouldn't suboridnate Italy to America even if it was the most rational choice. He'd probably sell weapons to "third world fascist ideological brothers" like Idi Amin and other international pariahas instead of build a working relashensip with the Americans, becuase it would on paper make Italy look like a Superpower, which is what Benito wanted more then anyhting, for Italy to be viewed as an equal to all the other great powers.
Garrison
Donor
I can't see them joining any more than Spain did. But I would also say I think Mussolini's grip on power was far more tenuous that Franco's and I doubt it would last as long.
While you’re right I don’t think they’d be able to have much of foreign policy that didn’t align with the US. After all what despot didn’t have the backing of one side or the other? And since he wouldn’t be caught dead aiding communists that really only leaves the anti communists…who usually have US/western support. Also idi was in the 70s, I doubt he’s making it that far before he kicks the can. I do agree Italy would try and act like a super power and exert influence though.
Why would his grip be more tenuous?
Garrison
Donor
It was always more tenuous, its why he was ousted during the war. There were other centres of authority in Italy that Mussolini couldn't control. He never had the iron grip Hitler enjoyed in Germany.
They'd definitely try to head their own Fascist block, which would likely be opposed to an Anglo-French bloc leading to a kind of alternative CEE/EFTA split under slightly different presumptions.
Unless for some reason the Free French project never takes off and the British decide they need Italy as a closer-minded junior partner to help counterbalance the Americans and the Soviets. At which point we'll see something closer in tone to The Footprint of Mussolini, with Italy trying to be a genuine force worldwide (to no major avail).
Libya will stay Italian and become fairly rich, creating a lot of long-term problems and opportunities; the AOI will be a sore point, but with less emphasis on decolonization it will limp on for a while.