Indeed, they'd likely be known as Persian and possibly Greek numerals furter west. A lot of mathematical terminology would be different, from different terms for algebra (from al-jabr, Arabic for bonesetting) to cipher (sifr, Arabic for zero).
What would the modern world be like if Islam never existed?
- Thread starter Karlmarx900
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Good question it would say it would be imposed but not really seeing people converting
Zoroastrianism was never big on conversion, but there is a good chance it might reform or change due to heavy interaction with Manicheism
It did try with all the sassanids trying to impose it on the people of the Caucasus
Azerbaijan or rather at the time caucasian albania was christian a good example is how Vache of Albania was forced by the sha to convert to Zoroastrianism but then reverted back to chirstianity
As for modern day Uzbekistan sure some irenians there did but i can tell you the sogdians and tocherians ( which were huge groups in the area )
If anything the area was buddhist before islam
That is a bit more complicated, as people in these regions were already inhabited by Iranian people as such Zoroastrianism easily spread due to similarities wity existing Iranian religions
Zoroastrianism actually has poor record against other religions, Central Asia was largely Buddhist despite Persian control over these lands and Christianity was also successful in Iran proper itself, though not to the degree people might say, and ofcourse Islam seems to have decimated the Zoroastrian population through conversions rather easily
But it was not successful right, it does seem that zoroastrianism was not as successful in spreading, especially when in competition with other religions like Buddhism and Christianity
no the armenians to this day are chirstians , the iberians did not convert and the albanians ( the ones from the caucasus) also converted to chirstianity this relgion was really the winner in the causcasus till islam.
That us what I said, Christianity seems to beat Zoroastrianism wherever they competed
When we get to the East it is hard to discern religion in exclusionist terms, you actually get a lot of syncretism among popular beliefs with characteristics from multiple beliefs, although not exactly 1:1 in theological terms with Sasanian authorities, Sogdian hymns possesses a clear Mazdean structure and Samarkand had a prosperous Mazdean community until the Mongols slaughtered the city.
oh yes there was a lot of syncretism but central asia was becomming buddhist before islam showed up , zoroastrianiism was big on the sogdians from material evidence how ever by the time when the muslims finally secured the area the sogdians were more eastern if you can call it that , during the late 6th century show predominantly Zoroastrian motifs in their tombs in china proper and the fringes of it but by 7th you find more traditonal chinise and manacheisim practices.
so while the sogdians did pratice zoroastranisim like you said it had chinise , buddhist Manichaeism syncretisim i would see this trend continue if not be accelerated as with no caliphate the chinise would have more stable control and last longer there (also their rival sooner or later would be persia)
i do not know if the persians would consider the sogdian mishmash of these faiths are some sort of heresy as they did with Zurvanism and Mazdakism
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Well, I'm no expert on Heaven Worship (the Chinese name for Zoroastrianism), but the Chinese themselves didn't consider the Sogdians on the same basket as Buddhism or Manicheanism, although those faith obviously existed on the region you can't really disregard the presence of Zoroastrianism there.
Also during the middle ages you constant contact between religious authorities from Fars to the Zoroastrian community in Samarkand, meaning both recognized themselves as religious brethren, note: Zurvanism probably never existed as a separate sect from traditional Mazdaism, it has been mostly dismissed by scholars of the religion for over a decade now, former Boyce protegees like de Jong did try to hold on it for while before giving it up too.
Eh the sogdians living in china prosper were consider the ones you mentioned during 7th century Zoroastrian inscription of the sogdian merchants in china disappear .
The middle ages well i mean do you mean post Islam ? I would see it as possible that in the early years and later after the conquest both recognize themselves do to Islamic invasion that in another scenario they wouldn't i would see the persians trying to rid Zoroastrianism of the a lot of buddhist influences
For the last one I don't know hmm neat new concencus
The mongols would have overrun everything. There would have been nobody who could effectively fight them in the middle east. The Abbasids would have not been there. Centuries of conflict would have been different, leading to a much more peaceful middle east.
I would imagine that the mongols would come out of China armed with gunpowder, horsemanship, and Chinese siege engines. They would roll through the middle east then conquer Europe.
There would be a much wider spread of Tibetan buddhism as the Mongols were captivated by it. Also paganism.
I would imagine that the mongols would come out of China armed with gunpowder, horsemanship, and Chinese siege engines. They would roll through the middle east then conquer Europe.
There would be a much wider spread of Tibetan buddhism as the Mongols were captivated by it. Also paganism.
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North Africa, the Levant, Anatolia, and Mesopotamia would remain Christian and have closer ties to Europe. While Central Asia would remain Buddhist and Persia Zoroastrian. Without Islam to spread Arabic culture, the Arabs would be like the Mongols. They would just assimilate into other cultures.
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I think Christianity might come out on top in places like Central Asia, Arabia, and especially Africa.
No Islam tearing Rome to shreds leads to at least a decent political reconsolidation, and if even if they halted any expansion and remained in the territories prior to the Islamic invasions, they'd still be a super wealthy state. Assuming there's still a Trans-Saharan Trade (which there should definitely be), the Christians fill the gap of the Muslims and trade with the West African Kingdoms, which would lead to the same sorts of conversion that the Muslims undertook OTL. Plus the Axumites would be a major trading force across East Africa, and like Islam before, would probably spread Christianity through trade.
Plus Persia in itself had already been swinging towards Christianity, the vast majority of Mesopotamia was Christian, and multiple consecutive Emperors like Kavadh II, Ardashir III, and Shahrbaraz were all extremely friendly to Christianity. Nestorianism had already spread even as far as Central Asia, and with no Islam to knock it down, and a pro-Christian Iran, it could largely come to dominate the region. Arabia as well was dominated by the Christian Lakhmids and Ghassanids, and the religion would definitely seep far in, but might be counteracted by the extremely large Jewish populations.
No Islam tearing Rome to shreds leads to at least a decent political reconsolidation, and if even if they halted any expansion and remained in the territories prior to the Islamic invasions, they'd still be a super wealthy state. Assuming there's still a Trans-Saharan Trade (which there should definitely be), the Christians fill the gap of the Muslims and trade with the West African Kingdoms, which would lead to the same sorts of conversion that the Muslims undertook OTL. Plus the Axumites would be a major trading force across East Africa, and like Islam before, would probably spread Christianity through trade.
Plus Persia in itself had already been swinging towards Christianity, the vast majority of Mesopotamia was Christian, and multiple consecutive Emperors like Kavadh II, Ardashir III, and Shahrbaraz were all extremely friendly to Christianity. Nestorianism had already spread even as far as Central Asia, and with no Islam to knock it down, and a pro-Christian Iran, it could largely come to dominate the region. Arabia as well was dominated by the Christian Lakhmids and Ghassanids, and the religion would definitely seep far in, but might be counteracted by the extremely large Jewish populations.