What would our pop culture look like if the Axis had won?

If the British Empire couldn't hold on to a satellite state across the Atlantic, what makes you think Germany could. America would never be controlled by an outside power, they're barely controlled by their own leadership.

I think the key difference is the Nazis, unlike the British Empire, would never tire of murdering anyone and everyone that attempted to resist. As some critics of Gandhi point out, his methods worked against the British because they were built on his understanding of the British guilt and discomfort over India and colonialism. When he suggested the Jews of Europe should throw themselves off cliffs or onto the bayonets of Nazi guns, he was making a deeply flawed remark that showed he didn't realise that that would, far from calling the Nazis' bluff, move their agenda forward.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Dear God. What wasn't classed as "degenerate art" in that country?

Did Hitler seriously expect everyone to listen to Wagner and nothing else?

Basically, more or less...
Yes.

Also bask in germanized greco-roman pastiches.
 
I would not go too deep into cliché.

For example, what would change about Wagner? He would still be held as high in regards as he had been prior to 1945. There would be no reason to discuss his antisemitism and he wouldn't get the malus of being inspirational to Hitler (plus the close connection of the Wagner family to the Führer), but that would rather be a bonus. Besides that, interest into classical music in general would most probably be waning just like in OTL.

Concerning modern musical styles, there might be a tendency to copy them or rather have a "purified" version which is supposedly without Jewish or Negroid influences. There have been some tendencies concerning that when it comes to Jazz music, though they haven't been followed through. And, there will always been some underground music- lasting regimes need valves.

One should also note the disturbing tendency that OTL's Neo-Nazi-music today comes in all styles and shapes- even Reggae.

Rock'n'Roll will be a niche music, though; or purely confined to African-Americans. The question is how this butterflies to other styles. I won't go into that.

Maybe the more European "Beat" music might be accepted in its tamer versions, yes to "Yesterday", no to a lot of the later stuff.

There will certainly be no acceptance of Punk Rock. If something like Heavy Metal evolves, those sections of it which are rather orchestral and heroic might be accepted. Always take care of matching lyrics (that goes for all sorts of music!), but it could be seen as a music channeling the ethos and brute power of the Germanic and Aryan forefathers. ;)

Techno/Electronical music on the other hand...could go either way.

I would also like to point out that it is unlikely that the German "Schlager" music, i.e. the sort of usually harmless pop music which can live under any regime gets stuck in the 30s. It will go different than OTL, but generally, German language mainstream music has also in OTL evolved rather conservatively, so there might be less difference than feared.

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Concerning movies, we also have to remember that Goebbels' UFA wasn't completely about propaganda, but generally kept to light entertainment.

It is all about subtext. Content which in OTL is directed against NS-analogies would have to change...

For a random pick, I took OTL's worldwide highest grossing films to date.

- Avatar: Jewish-plutocratic corporation tries to exploit the planet of a race of noble savages, quasi-Aryans who just live their non-industrialized culture. Could work very well with the proto-environmentalist as well as the anti-modernist vein in NS-ideology. Also, check on Karl May (of whose works Hitler was very fond of, just as every male German of his and the next two generations); you turn the romance in Avatar into a bromance and you have Old Shatterhand and Winnetou.

- Titanic: was done by the Nazis in 1943 with an obvious Anti-British undertone and some falsehoods on the actual events, but with some quite effective shots which were copied by James Cameron one-on-one

- The Lord of the Rings: Now Tolkien intended this to be an Anti-German fable, BUT see the noble Aryan races of Gondor and Rohan, supported by those cute Hobbits (Italians?) fight against monstrous deformed creatures from hell. It is not too much arm-twisting to Nazify the story, though the Nazis would probably rather prefer a huge Nibelungen-movie.

- Pirates of the Carribean: am I wrong in seeing pure escapism here? Though, one could always emphasize some Anti-Britishness.

- Toy Story 3: well, I see no reason to prohibit it. Buzz Lightyear's uniform might look a bit different

- Alice in Wonderland: now, I feel unable to comment on it

- The Dark Knight: a hero with little humour in a black uniform battles an anarchist

- Harry Potter: now the whole Death Eater-plot would have to be changed completely so that its ideology ressembles not national-socialism, but communism. No SPEW! The sub-humans must know their place! Oh, and Durmstrang is a very different place!


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Sculptures? Paintings? What percentage of the populace cares???
 
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Basically, more or less...
Yes.

Also bask in germanized greco-roman pastiches.

Whilst seemingly forgetting that the Romans and Greeks painted their statues. Oh, and... well, most of Aristophanes and Plautus for starters.

Probably not that much different from today, I'm guessing. The Nazi regime wouldn't have lasted that long after WWII with Hitler as unhealthy as he was, and somoene would have liberalised it eventually after the inevitably succession crisis and massive civil war.

Films-if the Nazis don't do the North Korean thing and stagnate horribly-would be enormous, effects driven, heavily ideological masterpieces, as well as a decent drizzle of light stuff thrown in. (Hitler's film tastes, after all, weren't based entirely around watching "The Eternal Jew".) Rom coms and Romances would be sprayed out en masse, (probably getting less chaste after Hitler's death), along with the normal Hollywood mix of genres. I can imagine (although I admit to having never watched any of these, and never wish to) a sort of "Saw" equivalent involving some evil Jew/communist kidnapping unsuspecting Aryan backpackers/hitch hikers/colonists/students/Hitler Youth members and hacking them to pieces... only to, to the horror of the Nazis, gain an innapropriate fandom who sees them as "hilarious", or sympathise with the villain for some reason. (But please, correct me if I'm wrong about this Nazi Saw. I don't understand its population here either.)

-There will probably still be plenty of Westerns, most likely featuring good old Americans as the heroes (although German-American immigrants could play a role)-but they could also compete with Our Heroic Soldiers on the Eastern front battling the despicable Reds and defending their colonies (or against the bumbling British in Africa alongside the plucky, ill equipped Italians, occasionally providing some light comic relief, but ably helping out when storming the HQ of the despicable, child molesting Monty who relies on massive human waves rather than Superior German Tactics.) Later, perhaps, after liberalisation, these could become more like the 'nam films of the 60s and 70s, featuring hapless, disillusioned conscripts with WWII Einsatzgruppen veteran fanatics as their commanders.
 
- The Lord of the Rings: Now Tolkien intended this to be an Anti-German fable, BUT see the noble Aryan races of Gondor and Rohan, supported by those cute Hobbits (Italians?) fight against monstrous deformed creatures from hell. It is not too much arm-twisting to Nazify the story, though the Nazis would probably rather prefer a huge Nibelungen-movie.

More than likely, LOTR doesn't even get published. However, suppose Tolkein survives by expatriating to Free Australia or New Zealand (I'm assuming German conquest of England)? It'd be interesting to see what would he might have changed in reflection of his personal reactions to the events. Maybe it gets gloomier yet... depite defeating Sauron, the Scouring of the Shire ends badly for all, and the heroes are forced into exile, never again to see their beloved Shire, showing that we must constantly be on guard against evil.

This book, of course, is only publicly available in areas which are still successfully resisting the Fascists. Copies are passed underground on the black market elsewhere. Aspects of it become symbols of the resistance movements in occupied territories... one sees grafitti in the Underground of a large eye spray painted over posters of the Fuhrer. "Orc" becomes a common derogatory term for a German soldier. "All that glitters..." and "One ring to bind them..." become almost-shibboleths of sorts for members of the resistance.
 
More than likely, LOTR doesn't even get published. However, suppose Tolkein survives by expatriating to Free Australia or New Zealand (I'm assuming German conquest of England)? It'd be interesting to see what would he might have changed in reflection of his personal reactions to the events. Maybe it gets gloomier yet... depite defeating Sauron, the Scouring of the Shire ends badly for all, and the heroes are forced into exile, never again to see their beloved Shire, showing that we must constantly be on guard against evil.

This book, of course, is only publicly available in areas which are still successfully resisting the Fascists. Copies are passed underground on the black market elsewhere. Aspects of it become symbols of the resistance movements in occupied territories... one sees grafitti in the Underground of a large eye spray painted over posters of the Fuhrer. "Orc" becomes a common derogatory term for a German soldier.

Very nice idea of an alternate Tolkien-saga, and I complete agree with you in the danger butterflying away the LOTR. I was just picking "random" OTL-examples to show how current movie-themes don't have to change radically in order to be tolerable to NS-censorship.

Thinking about fantasy- I think it is imaginable that it becomes even more popular than in OTL, especially as an escapist fare in defeated nations, where people long for an idealized past. Also it offers, as you so nicely proposed, clear good/evil-analogies for the present.

Whereas Sci-Fi might actually rather blossom in a Space-Racing Third Reich...
 
Some German musicians tried to get a watered-down jazz with German titles past the censorship. "Tiger rag" became "schwarzer Panther" and so on.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
The fantasy genre are likely going to be significant different, in OTL version spread to large extent because of the prestige of English culture.

Superheroes would stay a purely American niche to even large extent than in OTL. Comics and cartoons would stay even more marketed to children. If comics to adult win room, it will likely be in the Franco-Belgian tradition.

Movies are going to be a lot more subble about forbidden issues, and we will likely see grand epic movies being even more widespread.
 
Imperial Japan would've developed quite a fascinating pop culture, I think. I have the impression that Japan was more tolerant of this stuff than Nazi Germany was. Or maybe I'm totally wrong here, and Tojo banned everything except propaganda.

But they would've produced some kick-ass samurai movies, that's for sure.

As for comics and cartoons...since you said that this market would become much smaller, it would probably be completely dominated by Japan. Even moreso than in OTL.
 
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archaeogeek

Banned
We would be talking about Stalin's crimes in the same shuddering way that we talk about the Holocaust today.

We don't? :rolleyes:
I'm sorry, but I get the feeling that every time someone so much as mentions the fact that the nazis were genocidal monsters hell bent on killing at least half the world's populations we have to make a mea culpa because Stalin may, maybe, have killed more, if you count russian and ostfront german deaths in WW2 as "killed by Stalin". Which requires so much mental contortions I suspect the person doing them can probably teleport with their mind. And of course over a much much shorter timespan while the world was busy trying to get rid of the nazis.
 
Yeah, but people still don't talk about Stalin as much. And I'm not saying he was worse than the Nazis. But that's the way it would be.
 
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