What would it have taken for President Lincoln to ask for help from the British?

Now first up I should say that I am not from America so my knowledge of the civil war is reasonably basic but I have been watching a few Civil War documentaries recently as I have always been interested in war documentaries and I realised a few weeks ago I knew surprisingly little about the American Civil War.

So after watching the documentaries I got the impression that Lincoln was not really a fan of the British and wanted to keep the British out of the American Civil War.

So my question is what would it have taken for President Lincoln to of actively asked for the British help in fighting the Confederacy?

One example I am thinking of for instance is what if the Confederacy managed to develop a few Ironclad ships and the USA did not have the USS Monitor so essentially the Confederacy would have complete control of the water around the USA. In such a situation would Lincoln ask for the help of the Royal Navy?

Or what about more basic help. For instance if the British developed a gun that was vastly superior to anything the Americans had would Lincoln have bought it in order to help his troops?

I am just wondering for people who know of this period of history how bad things would have to get before President Lincoln asked the British for help?

Obviously he never needed to but I am curious to know what circumstances might have occurred which would have made him consider asking the help of the country which only a few generations earlier the USA was fighting in a war.
 
You are talking about a man who turned down elephants from Siam, first rule of diplomacy; never turn down elephants hardly anyone offers you elephants.

As for guns and ships the US had money, they could go and buy stuff from the British if they wanted it. Without compromising the Monroe Doctrine by formally asking for help.
 
In answer to the question, I don't think there are any circumstances under which Lincoln would have asked for formal British government involvement, nor would Britain have provided it. Britain did help the Spanish government out in a civil war in the 1830s, but that was under different circumstances: mostly, they stay out of the war. However, the Union certainly had no qualms about getting British help through non-official channels:

One example I am thinking of for instance is what if the Confederacy managed to develop a few Ironclad ships and the USA did not have the USS Monitor so essentially the Confederacy would have complete control of the water around the USA. In such a situation would Lincoln ask for the help of the Royal Navy?

Laird- the Birkinhead shipbuilder responsible for the 1863 Confederate ironclad rams- claimed to have been approached by the Union:

In 1861, just after the war broke out, a friend of mine, whom I have known for many years, was over here, and came to me with a view of getting iron-plated vessels of war built in this country for the American Government—the Northern Government. Its agents in this country made inquiries, plans and estimates were given to my friend, and transmitted to the Secretary of the American navy. I will read an extract from this gentleman's letter, dated the 30th of July, 1861. It is written from Washington, and states— "Since my arrival here I have had frequent interviews with our 'Department of Naval Affairs,' and am happy to say that the Minister of the navy is inclined to have an iron-plated ship built out of the country. This ship is designed for a specific purpose to accomplish a definite object. I send you herewith a memorandum, banded me last evening from the Department, with the request that I would send it to you by steamer's mail of to-morrow, and to ask your immediate reply, stating, if you will agree to build such a ship as desired, how soon, and for how much, with such plans and specifications as you may deem it best to send me." The extract from the memorandum states that "the ship is to be finished complete, with guns and everything appertaining." On the 14th of August, I received another letter from the same gentleman, from which the following is an extract:— "I have this morning a note from the Assistant Secretary of the navy, in which he says, 'I hope your friends will tender for the two iron plated steamers.'" After this, the firm with which I was lately connected, having made contracts to a large extent with other persons, stated that they were not in a position to undertake any orders to be done in so short a time. This was the reply— "I sent your last letter, received yesterday, to the Secretary of the navy, who was very desirous to have you build the iron-plated or bomb-proof batteries, and I trust that he may yet decide to have you build one or more of the gunboats." I think, perhaps, in the present state of the law in America, I shall not be asked to give the name of my correspondent; but he is a gentleman of the highest respectability.

For instance if the British developed a gun that was vastly superior to anything the Americans had would Lincoln have bought it in order to help his troops?
When the war broke out, the Union had about 400,000 smoothbore muskets and 40,000 rifles to distribute to troops. By 30 July 1862, they had manufactured 109,810 rifles in government works and bought 14,267 from American companies... compared to 116,740 Enfield rifles purchased from British companies.*

*In the interests of fairness I should point out that the government also bought 135,755 Austrian rifles and 203,831 other foreign rifles in that early period: however, the Enfield generally had the best reputation and sold more over the war as a whole.
 
Not sure if the Brits WOULD favour the North if they were to intervene.


If things were 'close run' enough that Lincoln et al were interested in England's assistance, they might (from a Realpolitik POV) actually support the South to offset Northern industrialization and regain access to King Cotton.

In OTL, they stayed out because they assumed that the North would prevail, and didn't want to spoil long-term relations.

(Their neutrality was also due to their views on slavery as well, but they allied with Russia from time to time when the Tsar's serfs were miserable too)
 
In answer to the question, I don't think there are any circumstances under which Lincoln would have asked for formal British government involvement, nor would Britain have provided it. Britain did help the Spanish government out in a civil war in the 1830s, but that was under different circumstances: mostly, they stay out of the war. However, the Union certainly had no qualms about getting British help through non-official channels:

This. The US would never formally ask for British help and the British would never formally give it. If however the US ever needed lots of artillery or rifles on short notice the British might conveniently have several shipments already loaded on ships for fantastically low prices. Any aid the British were to give would be unofficial and through commercial channels only. But if the US were to unofficially ask for aid the British would probably unofficially provide it.
 
So my question is what would it have taken for President Lincoln to of actively asked for the British help in fighting the Confederacy?

...

I am just wondering for people who know of this period of history how bad things would have to get before President Lincoln asked the British for help?

France allies with the CSA and threatens British maritime interests. Then Britain would help out the USA anyway. Do not threaten British sea power.

A potential Gettysburg in this ATL could be George Meade and Sir Hastings Doyle vs Robert E. Lee.

This could have the side effect of Bismarck uniting the German states against France, making the ATL Franco-Prussian war merely the 'European Theater' of the American Civil War.
 
If things were 'close run' enough that Lincoln et al were interested in England's assistance, they might (from a Realpolitik POV) actually support the South to offset Northern industrialization and regain access to King Cotton.

Except British financial interests were heavily invested in northern industry (and mines and railroads) while they were already cultivating other sources of cotton like Egypt and India.
 
France allies with the CSA and threatens British maritime interests. Then Britain would help out the USA anyway. Do not threaten British sea power.

A potential Gettysburg in this ATL could be George Meade and Sir Hastings Doyle vs Robert E. Lee.

This could have the side effect of Bismarck uniting the German states against France, making the ATL Franco-Prussian war merely the 'European Theater' of the American Civil War.

Napolean III actually favored backing the confederates (mainly because the Union was opposed to his adventures in Mexico). However he made it clear that he would only do so with British support. The British refused and that was the end of it. If you are interested in seeing a Trent related UK/FRench intervention on the side of the Confederates there is a discussion on it right here on AH.com.

As to Lincoln asking for direct help? Politically it would be impossible. The US was built on a fundamental idea that it chart its own course and would be "Free From European Entanglements". Being seperate from Europe (and particularly the UK) is still a big part of the American psyche at this time. To ask the UK for help would have made Lincoln look incredibly weak at home, and undermine the values core to the very existence of the US. I honestly think he would have negociated with the confederates before letting a European power intervene.

Also when would the Union ask for help? In 1861 I don't think they would believe they needed British aid. In 1862, although this is possibly the time the Union could use British support the most, there is the Trent affair, so public opinion on either side would be decidedly against UK intervention. By the time diplomatic relations smooth over again the Union doesn't need British support.


I would also add that 30-55 thousand British subjects in British North America volunteered to fight for the Union Army in the Civil War, so individual support amongst citizens was quite high in some areas of the British Empire.
 
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