What would have been the difference between a German WWI victory and a WWII one?

Susano

Banned
Germany wasn't a country, then.
Wtf? What does that have to do with anything?

To say Versailels was not strict is ridicolous. Probably Germany as WW1 victory wouldve subjected France to a similarly harsh treaty, buit that chanegs nothing about how Versailles was IOTL.

-The loss of the lands - lets not forget that includes some ten thousands refugees from Poland. But thats not the worst part.
-The rerstriction of the army - making Germany helpless agaibnst French agressions, Polish threats and internal unrests. No wonder the Freicorps were bloody necessary - and long live Schlageter's memory!
-But worst of all, the attempted destruction of German economy. The reperations were bad enough, but the treaty outright forbade some (civilian!) industries just to shit on the German economy. Yeah, not a harsh treaty allright!

Damn historical revisionism...
 
Wtf? What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with the fact it's difficult to determine how much money was taken out of a coutry which didn't exist at the time as such. Read the mail it was in answer to.

To say Versailels was not strict is ridicolous. Probably Germany as WW1 victory wouldve subjected France to a similarly harsh treaty, buit that chanegs nothing about how Versailles was IOTL.
.

I'm not saying it was not a strict treaty, I'm saying that, as it was applied - in contrast to what was originally written -, it was not harsher, or even more lenient that Frankfuhrt, proportionnally, when considering objective criteria. There's a difference.

If you want to speak about refugees, let's speak about Alsace-Moselle. If you want to look at internal unrest after the war, what about the Commune. Military restrictions? French fortifications to be destoyed.... etc

There are not exact reflection, but there is enough
 
Because Germany in 71

<sigh> I's suggest you read the thread and some history, but I'll try once more.

did internationalize the Seine,

The Rhine navigation was internationalised in 1815.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Centrale_pour_la_Navigation_du_Rhin

In fact, the only thing Versailles changed was to move the seat of the comission from Mayanz to Strasbourg.



acquired all French patents,

But did take the area of France which produced a big part of the french coal. WHich also hurt french industries a lot
demanded 50 billion gold francs as compensation,

But what they actually took was more, proportionnally speaking that what germany had to pay after WWI ( see thread above ).

Ans since they demended it immediately and not over a big period of time, it actually cost France much more.
forbade France from having an army larger than 100.000 people,

But destroyed the french fortification system, leaving them wide open to invasion.
set up a Breton Free State,

But Took Alsace and Moselle, as colonies.


And let's not forget that Prussian troops occupied parts of France for two years after the indemnity was paid.

grabbed their merchant marine,

The destructions by the prussian and allied armies hurt France much more than that.

demanded to try Napoleon III for war crimes,
But actually imprisonned him, instead.
and declared France to be the sole reason for the outbreak of the war?
The last has no equivalent, which I have already stated several times, if you bother to read what I posted.
 
But what they actually took was more, proportionnally speaking that what germany had to pay after WWI ( see thread above ).

Frankfurt asked for less than 10 % of Versailles in purely monetary reparations, if adjusted for inflation. This sum is even lower if one includes the new ideas of e.g. patent transfer and seizure of foreign assets (incl. the merchant marine, foreign branches of German companies like Bayer etc.) invented at Versailles.

I did some googling, and there seems to be a lack of unbiased data on how much Germany really paid. German sources claim 100+ billion marks paid. US sources average 39 billions.

So Germany seems to have paid more, corrected for inflation, even considering the size of the conflict. Keynes was mostly right in his view on Versailles IMHO; he advocated 36 billions maximum.

But I mostly care about the psychological effects, like blatant Allied violations of said treaty. Germany demanded no reparations at Brest-Litowsk ...

But destroyed the french fortification system, leaving them wide open to invasion. {SNIP} And let's not forget that Prussian troops occupied parts of France for two years after the indemnity was paid.

I am afraid You are wrong. The French fortresses were taken as a collateral, not destroyed IIRC. France created massive additional fortifications after 1871 without any German protest.

German troops already occupied parts of France and merely delayed their full withdrawal until France complied with its treaty obligations.

But Took Alsace and Moselle, as colonies.

I humbly disagree with the term ´colony´. Said territories had been occupied by France without any credible legal basis when the German Emperor was busy defending Christianity from the Turks, who were supported by the eldest daughter of the church, France.

We have no French data on the linguistic setup, but according to German data most locals spoke an admittedly strange German dialect. Listen to the locals today ... their French is weird, even after decades of massive French propaganda and reeducation.

Any territory that bases its cuisine on Sauerkraut is German!

But actually imprisonned him, instead.

Napoleon III was taken as a POW (CiC of the French Army), treated with full honors and later released - despite violations of the Laws of Warfare by his francs tireurs.
 
<sigh> I's suggest you read the thread and some history, but I'll try once more.
Your history and my history seem to be incompatible. I do not see a problem on my end, however.

The Rhine navigation was internationalised in 1815.
Granted. However, what about Elbe, Oder, and Danube?

But did take the area of France which produced a big part of the french coal. WHich also hurt french industries a lot
And France took it back.

But what they actually took was more, proportionnally speaking that what germany had to pay after WWI ( see thread above ).
Ans since they demended it immediately and not over a big period of time, it actually cost France much more.
Initially unlimited, then 40 times down to 30 times more than France had to pay is not proportianally less!
They demanded it within 3 years, which is roughly 1.6 billion per year. In comparison, the allies at Versailles wanted roughly 1.6 billion per year for 60 years, even in the later treaties. They started off with "we don't yet know, but start paying now".

But destroyed the french fortification system, leaving them wide open to invasion.
Occupied it, to my knowledge. But France could and did rebuild it, and it wasn't forced to limit its troops either.

But Took Alsace and Moselle, as colonies.
You have already used that for another point; besides, they were not colonies, merely mistreated.

And let's not forget that Prussian troops occupied parts of France for two years after the indemnity was paid.
That was according to the treaty, afaik, since the troops would stay for 3 years and France would have to pay for 3 years.

The destructions by the prussian and allied armies hurt France much more than that.
If we want to point fingers, the hunger blockade of Britain hurt Germany pretty badly too.

But actually imprisonned him, instead.
As a prisoner of war instead of war criminal. I'm sure you see the difference.

The last has no equivalent, which I have already stated several times, if you bother to read what I posted.
Alright, not bringing it back up again. Although I protest, I do read your replies, I just find them staggering.
 
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