What Would Have Been the Best Military Strategy for the Confederacy?

TFSmith121

Banned
This is also the chain of command that made such reasoned strategic choices as

Quite. But as instigators of the rebellion this is to some extent within their control. The South needs ASB levels of foresight and luck to win - my point was that they can't win after 1863 only escape with some residual territory. Which would eventually be assimilated back into the Union, by force if necessary. In 1861 and possibly 1862 they may have a slim chance of "shock and awe"-ing the Union into an armistice which might leave them with a strong enough state to survive. But I doubt it.

This is also the chain of command that made such reasoned strategic choices as the bombardment of Fort Sumter, the invasion of Kentucky in 1861, and various and sundry other questionable calls in 1861-62.

Best,
 
It's not like I'm promoting myself, but my TL has the Confederates take a smarter approach to the war :rolleyes:

Reported For shameless self-promotion.

Subscribed.

Quite.

But as instigators of the rebellion this is to some extent within their control.

The South needs ASB levels of foresight and luck to win - my point was that they can't win after 1863 only escape with some residual territory. Which would eventually be assimilated back into the Union, by force if necessary.

In 1861 and possibly 1862 they may have a slim chance of "shock and awe"-ing the Union into an armistice which might leave them with a strong enough state to survive.

But I doubt it.

And you have to butterfly Lincoln and get Foreign Intervention. Mere tactical "shock-and-awe" won't do it. The South would need the North to show levels of military leadership that would make the likes of Fredendall, Percival, Polk, and Gates (ARW) to look like first rate geniuses.
 
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This is also the chain of command that made such reasoned strategic choices as the bombardment of Fort Sumter, the invasion of Kentucky in 1861, and various and sundry other questionable calls in 1861-62.

Best,

Like stripping New Orleans and most of the Deep South of its defenses and sending everything into the gaping maws of the Union's best general at both Forts Henry and Donelson, followed up by Shiloh.:eek:
 
And you have to butterfly Lincoln and get Foreign Intervention. Mere tactica; "shock-and-awe" won't do it. The South would need the North to show levels of military leadership that would make the likes of Fredendall, Percival, Polk, and Gates (ARW) to look like first rate geniuses.

To be fair you had McClellan, Hooker, Pope, Burnside, and Butler out East for the Union. Took getting the Western commanders out there to blunt Lee's aura of invincibility (with of course the exception of Meade).

Of all of them I'd say Pope probably comes the closest to that level of blunder, but with Popes track record he was thankfully never destined to stay in command very long.
 
Like stripping New Orleans and most of the Deep South of its defenses and sending everything into the gaping maws of the Union's best general at both Forts Henry and Donelson, followed up by Shiloh.:eek:

To be fair to AS Johnston before Donelson Grant was known as "A drunken failure in life" not the best general in the Union. What he was guilty of is doing a halfway job of it. He sent only enough troops to Donelson for it to be a bigger victory for Grant.
 
To be fair you had McClellan, Hooker, Pope, Burnside, and Butler (1) out East for the Union. Took getting the Western commanders out there to blunt Lee's aura of invincibility (with of course the exception of Meade).

1) Don't you mean McDowell? Butler at least is credited with rushing his Sixth Massachusetts Infantry through Baltimore into Washington to prevent the DC from falling to Confederate sympathizers very early in the war. As I understand it, Butler was spending the war mostly in the West before 1865.

Also, Butler was ahead of everyone in terms of inventing the concept of "contrabands".

Of all of them I'd say Pope probably comes the closest to that level of blunder, but with Pope's track record he was thankfully never destined to stay in command very long.

Perhaps. But it was McClellan who left Pope out to dry by taking his own typical usual sweet time disengaging from the Peninsula, allowing Lee to destroy Pope's army.

To be fair to AS Johnston before Donelson Grant was known as "A drunken failure in life" not the best general in the Union.

Jealous rivals, including his own commanding officer G.W. Halleck. Jealous reporters too, who deeply resented the unique and unprecedented regular access provided by Grant to Chicago Times reporter Sylvanus Cadwallader. Not surprising Cadwallader got that friendly access, since apparently during the Yazoo River Campaign Grant went through the worst bender he ever had in the ACW, and it took Grant's Chief-of-Staff John Rawlins and Cadwallader working together to keep Grant from any prying eyes.

What he was guilty of is doing a halfway job of it. He sent only enough troops to Donelson for it to be a bigger victory for Grant.

Almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.:p
 
Jealous rivals, including his own commanding officer G.W. Halleck. Jealous reporters too, who deeply resented the unique and unprecedented regular access provided by Grant to Chicago Times reporter Sylvanus Cadwallader. Not surprising Cadwallader got that friendly access, since apparently during the Yazoo River Campaign Grant went through the worst bender he ever had in the ACW, and it took Grant's Chief-of-Staff John Rawlins and Cadwallader working together to keep Grant from any prying eyes.

The point is he couldn't have known that is Grant didn't have any real name recognition before then.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Yeah, true strategic brilliance...

Like stripping New Orleans and most of the Deep South of its defenses and sending everything into the gaping maws of the Union's best general at both Forts Henry and Donelson, followed up by Shiloh.:eek:

Yeah, true strategic brilliance...

Consider the US army commanders in 1861-65; then consider those of the rebels.

If such is defined as consisting of two or more corps, each of two or more divisions (on, let's say, the US 1862 establishment of three brigades of four infantry regiments each, plus a battalion of artillery) the best US army commanders include:

Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, Ord, Meade, and Thomas (plus Slocum, Howard, Rosecrans, Buell, McClellan, Burnside, Hooker, Pope, etc.)

The best rebel army commanders include:

Lee.

Plus AS Johnston, JE Johnston, GW Smith, Braxton Bragg, etc.

So what's that, 6 to 1? The population differential was only (roughly) 3 to 1 (~20 million to ~6 million "whites")...

Cripes, if you start looking at the corps commanders (and their equivalents) it gets even worse.

Lincoln, with less than 90 days experience in the Illinois militia in a conflict where he never heard a shot fired in anger, was a better strategist than Davis, with all his experience...

The rebels make the IJA look thoughtful.

Best,
 
Yeah, true strategic brilliance...

Consider the US army commanders in 1861-65; then consider those of the rebels.

If such is defined as consisting of two or more corps, each of two or more divisions (on, let's say, the US 1862 establishment of three brigades of four infantry regiments each, plus a battalion of artillery) the best US army commanders include:

Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, Ord, Meade, and Thomas (plus Slocum, Howard, Rosecrans, Buell, McClellan, Burnside, Hooker, Pope, etc.)

The best rebel army commanders include:

Lee.

Plus AS Johnston, JE Johnston, GW Smith, Braxton Bragg, etc.

So what's that, 6 to 1? The population differential was only (roughly) 3 to 1 (~20 million to ~6 million "whites")...

Cripes, if you start looking at the corps commanders (and their equivalents) it gets even worse.

Lincoln, with less than 90 days experience in the Illinois militia in a conflict where he never heard a shot fired in anger, was a better strategist than Davis, with all his experience...

The rebels make the IJA look thoughtful.

Best,

A fiddler crab would have made a better president than Jeff Davis! The scary thing is he may have well one of the best choices out of a bad lot. :eek::eek:
 
1) Don't you mean McDowell? Butler at least is credited with rushing his Sixth Massachusetts Infantry through Baltimore into Washington to prevent the DC from falling to Confederate sympathizers very early in the war. As I understand it, Butler was spending the war mostly in the West before 1865.

Oh I had forgotten about McDowell. :eek:

Well when I think of Butler all I can really think of is his spectacularly mishandled Army of the James and the Bermuda Hundreds. He hadn't really seen any significant combat before then and was more of an able administrator than a field commander.

Also, Butler was ahead of everyone in terms of inventing the concept of "contrabands".

This I give him credit for. Though I'd say that's hardly a sign of military genius :p

Perhaps. But it was McClellan who left Pope out to dry by taking his own typical usual sweet time disengaging from the Peninsula, allowing Lee to destroy Pope's army.

True, but Pope was insanely reckless in attacking and fell into a perfect trap. He was also largely incompetent in the task of managing his army and managed to alienate almost all the officers under him faster than Bragg in the Army of Tennessee!!
 
Also, Butler was ahead of everyone in terms of inventing the concept of "contrabands".
This I give him credit for. Though I'd say that's hardly a sign of military genius :p
Ahead of his Union contemporaries, surely? I mean, Lord Dunmore beat him to it by 86 years, and Commodore John Moore by 102. And it seems inappropriate to credit him for introducing the idea of 'contrabands,' but not to debit him for his treatment of escaped slaves in New Orleans, or his conflict with the more committed abolitionist John W. Phelps.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Major General (RI) James M. Varnum

Ahead of his Union contemporaries, surely? I mean, Lord Dunmore beat him to it by 86 years, and Commodore John Moore by 102. And it seems inappropriate to credit him for introducing the idea of 'contrabands,' but not to debit him for his treatment of escaped slaves in New Orleans, or his conflict with the more committed abolitionist John W. Phelps.

Major General (RI) James M. Varnum made the same recommendation 83 years before 1861, and it was sucessfully followed up on, so there's that... seems to have been a popular concept: military service in wartime leads to political gains in peacetime. Shocking.;)

T.S. Gracchus did it 1900 years before either of them, however, so he gets the prize. It's almost like no one reads Livy anymore.

See volones.

Best,
 
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