What would contemporary Japan be like if they won WW2?

Because of the recent earthquake and tsunami I've been wondering if the Japanese Empire would not have collapsed due to Japan being crippled by natural disasters.
 
Because of the recent earthquake and tsunami I've been wondering if the Japanese Empire would not have collapsed due to Japan being crippled by natural disasters.

Well, I searched, and I can't find another time a Japanese regime was brought down by a natural disaster. Even if the Japanese Empire survived to the present day (unlikely), it would not have been brought down by earthquakes and tsunamis.

In addition, despite an unfortunate location on the Ring of Fire, Japan is blessed with a good climate, lots of good farmland and some other natural blessings. Otherwise, they wouldn't consistently have been one of the most advanced nations on earth (from the ancient period up to today, with some lapses, most notably just before the Meiji era).
 
Well, I searched, and I can't find another time a Japanese regime was brought down by a natural disaster. Even if the Japanese Empire survived to the present day (unlikely), it would not have been brought down by earthquakes and tsunamis.

In addition, despite an unfortunate location on the Ring of Fire, Japan is blessed with a good climate, lots of good farmland and some other natural blessings. Otherwise, they wouldn't consistently have been one of the most advanced nations on earth (from the ancient period up to today, with some lapses, most notably just before the Meiji era).

Japan has lots of good farmland? :confused: Where? Similar question on technological advancement, though this is more a confession of ignorance of how far Japan was developed and when.
 
What annoys me are posters who post utter BS and then insult other who call them on it. I am also annoyed by posters who imply that the Japanese were not all that bad as occupiers, and that simply do not understand the difference between surviving and colaborating.

What REALLY annoys me are posters who will take serious issues regarding war crimes and say "so what?".

For the entire tone of your responses in this thread, from post # 1 you are kicked for a week.

That's strike two.


He did apologize for it....
 
Japan has lots of good farmland? :confused: Where? Similar question on technological advancement, though this is more a confession of ignorance of how far Japan was developed and when.

Japan doesn't have a lot of level farmland, but what they do have is really, really good. All that volcanism makes for very rich soil and there usually isn't any for irrigation; the only caveat is that most of it isn't flat. Compare that to California or northern China where agriculture without irrigation is nearly impossible and the soil is often highly alkaline or loaded with salt.
 
Japan doesn't have a lot of level farmland, but what they do have is really, really good. All that volcanism makes for very rich soil and there usually isn't any for irrigation; the only caveat is that most of it isn't flat. Compare that to California or northern China where agriculture without irrigation is nearly impossible and the soil is often highly alkaline or loaded with salt.

I presume this (underlined) should be read as "there usually isn't any need for".

California has pretty decent farmland (Often salty or alkaline? What part of the state are you looking at?) - even if its added by irrigation, I'd rather rely on it than Japan's overly hilly landscape, volcano-enriched or not.

Can't talk about northern China, but I don't think picking examples that are Really Awful indicates particularly good actually usable land in Japan.
 
I presume this (underlined) should be read as "there usually isn't any need for".

California has pretty decent farmland (Often salty or alkaline? What part of the state are you looking at?) - even if its added by irrigation, I'd rather rely on it than Japan's overly hilly landscape, volcano-enriched or not.

Can't talk about northern China, but I don't think picking examples that are Really Awful indicates particularly good actually usable land in Japan.

Pretty much all of it except for the far north. The southern part of the state (I think the Imperial Valley area in particular IIRC) has had the most problems with salinization. Low rainfall makes for alkaline soil, and the problem is made worse by irrigation. Major Californian crops either cope with it (grapes, pistachios, and olives), aren't in the ground long enough for it to matter too much (greens and other annual crops), or rely on a constant source of water to minimize damage (citrus, avocados, other fruits). While much of California is extremely productive today, it takes a large amount of technology and effort to keep it that way.

That said, what's wrong with farmland that's not quite horizontal? I think any farmer would rather deal with planting on a slope than having to pay for fertilizer and irrigation. Take a look at farms in Japan. The hills and mountainsides are terraced, which eliminates most of the problems with slopes and lasts for generations. Japan (and much of the rest of East Asia, even today) uses much more labor than Western farming, but the Asian style of farming has also been able to support the highest population densities in the world. often on land that would be considered marginal for Western style farming.
 
Japan doesn't have a lot of level farmland, but what they do have is really, really good. All that volcanism makes for very rich soil and there usually isn't any for irrigation; the only caveat is that most of it isn't flat. Compare that to California or northern China where agriculture without irrigation is nearly impossible and the soil is often highly alkaline or loaded with salt.

You a fellow Berkeleyan, mosodake?
 
Pretty much all of it except for the far north. The southern part of the state (I think the Imperial Valley area in particular IIRC) has had the most problems with salinization. Low rainfall makes for alkaline soil, and the problem is made worse by irrigation. Major Californian crops either cope with it (grapes, pistachios, and olives), aren't in the ground long enough for it to matter too much (greens and other annual crops), or rely on a constant source of water to minimize damage (citrus, avocados, other fruits). While much of California is extremely productive today, it takes a large amount of technology and effort to keep it that way.

So that leaves only fruits, particularly citrus fruits (which aren't native to California) - not really a sign of particularly terrible farmland in practice.

That said, what's wrong with farmland that's not quite horizontal? I think any farmer would rather deal with planting on a slope than having to pay for fertilizer and irrigation. Take a look at farms in Japan. The hills and mountainsides are terraced, which eliminates most of the problems with slopes and lasts for generations. Japan (and much of the rest of East Asia, even today) uses much more labor than Western farming, but the Asian style of farming has also been able to support the highest population densities in the world. often on land that would be considered marginal for Western style farming.
Having to terrace it is isn't exactly a minimal task though.

I could have sworn I've read something in the Rise and Fall of the Great Powers or something of that sort on food production for Japan being an issue, but the only thing I can see is the land demanding too much labor.
 
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You a fellow Berkeleyan, mosodake?
Yeah, I got to school there. I'm originally from the LA area.

So that leaves only fruits, particularly citrus fruits (which aren't native to California) - not really a sign of particularly terrible farmland in practice.
I don't see what being a California native has anything to do with it. No crop grown in California is a native species. California isn't terrible farmland, it's just harder to grow things there than in other places, and the practices used to allow things to grow there are evniromentally damaging, though admittedly the harsher conditions also means lower pest pressure.

Having to terrace it is isn't exactly a minimal task though.

I could have sworn I've read something in the Rise and Fall of the Great Powers or something of that sort on food production for Japan being an issue, but the only thing I can see is the land demanding too much labor.
A terraced hillside lasts for generations though. It's not something you need to do every planting season. Anyways, southern China, Korea, and Southeast Asia all use the same or similar high labor, high maintenance farming in similar climate, soil, and topology. That didn't stop any of them from producing empires and kingdoms.
 
I don't see what being a California native has anything to do with it. No crop grown in California is a native species. California isn't terrible farmland, it's just harder to grow things there than in other places, and the practices used to allow things to grow there are evniromentally damaging, though admittedly the harsher conditions also means lower pest pressure.

That's because it's not bad farmland. California's farmland is actually good but is being degraded quickly because of agricultural practices. But just for the record, it's the most productive agricultural state on an absolute scale, given that it's $13 billion in agricultural exports accounts for 14% of America's agricultural exports.
 
I don't see what being a California native has anything to do with it. No crop grown in California is a native species. California isn't terrible farmland, it's just harder to grow things there than in other places, and the practices used to allow things to grow there are evniromentally damaging, though admittedly the harsher conditions also means lower pest pressure.

Well, one would not expect citrus fruits to do well here, so that they are particularly hard to grow here is...unsurprising.

And when did this become about the environment? Not that it isn't a valid issue, I'm just not sure when it became relevant to our discussion.

A terraced hillside lasts for generations though. It's not something you need to do every planting season. Anyways, southern China, Korea, and Southeast Asia all use the same or similar high labor, high maintenance farming in similar climate, soil, and topology. That didn't stop any of them from producing empires and kingdoms.

You don't need to do the irrigation network every planting season either.

As for the empires & kingdoms of the other places you just named, I don't know much of anything on Korea or Southeast Asia, but China - even just meaning the southern part (half? third?) is a lot bigger. Just having all of that united is a pretty impressive state in some eras.
 
No, the Imperial Japanese would actually make the effort to build a real concrete wall along the Manchurian border, with guard towers in strategic places.
The Japanese already had a wall along the Manchurian/Chinese Border. It is called "The Great Wall".

What whe need is a POD that lets the IJA's main Enemy Defeat them.

1939
IJA attacks the Russians and gets their Heads Handed To them In a Series of Battles. By the end of the Battles Japan has lost the Northern Railroad Area.
OTL the Manchurian/Trans Siberian Railroad was split into the Japanese Southern Railroad Area and the Russian NRA. Except the Russians didn't have Troops in the Territory, except just on the Trains.
ITTL The Russians Now have Troops controlling the Entire northern Half of the Territory, by the time the Japanese call for a Cease Fire.


The IJN takes this as a opportunity and Attacks. By the the end of the Year, Tojo and the IJA is out, and Yamoto and the IJN take over the Government.

Yamoto undertakes a Diplomatic offensive. Cutting the IJA's Budget. Pulling back ties with Germany. And requesting Britain's & the US's help mediating China.

With the Fall Of France and Holland, Japan requests Britain's Help with Contracts for DEI Oil.

Thru 1940 -41 Japan continues Fortifying It's South Sea Territories, while pulling back to the DMZ in the North and Coastal Enclaves in the South.

As such Imperial Japan manages to get thru WW2 intact.

WW 2 ends with Britain opening several cans of Instant Sun over Germany.

The 40's end with a mini cold war between Japan & the US in the South Seas. With the US Fortifying It's South sea Islands and building Up/Expanding It's Bases in The Philippines.
This ends when The USSR tests/opens a Can of Instant Sun. with the US and Japan beginning an easing of tensions.

The 50's starts the Decolonization Push. With both Britain and France on the verge of Bankruptcy and Germany still Prostrate, neither can afford Colonies.
Decolonization & the Telecommunication Revolution also affects Japan, With a ground swell of Anti Militaristism in the Civilian sector.
Following a Anti Military Coup in the Diet, Japan ends with a new Constitution that put strong limits on Military Power.
It also expands the Diet to include the new Provinces in Korea and South Manchuria.

Following this - the 60's see a slow Withdraw from China, with Japan turning over it's China bases to the Nationals.
However there is still a lot of Tension over Japanese control of a lot of Economic Assets, and the slow pace of Japanese Withdraw.

In the 70's It has been 40 years of Japanazation in Korea and 50 in Formosa.
Most people under 23~30 Speak Japanese & have Japanese Names.
Long term Investment strategy is beginning to Pay Off, With Industries in NKorea, & Southern Manchuria Maturing and boosting Japan's GNP.

By the late 80's Japan has passed France and Britain, and is crowding the USSR's official GNP, for 2nd Place.

Japan/China is stuck in a Love/Hate relation.
While China Won the War, It still has Thousands of Japanese Business in the Country, controlling large parts of the Economy.
And any Attempt to Nationalize them will incur the wrath of the US, and it's Cold War against Russia.
Japan has the same problem as any overt attempt to seize Control will bring the wrath of the US, and leave Japan open to Russia.
As well as Upsetting The Nations of Indo-China, and the Nations of Indonesia.

In the 90's a new problem raises It head as the Old Factory center in Japan Ages, and the New Industry and Centre of Power begins moving to Korea/Manchuria.
This is seen in Demographic data showing the Islands Population rapidly aging as the population growth falls below 1.2~1.5.
At the Same time Population Growth in Korea/Manchuria remains around 2.3~4's [ZNP = 2.1]

In the First decade of the 21th Century Japan is a mature Economy, 2nd largest in the World.
It has a Modern Military about the size of OTL's Japan & Korea Combined.
Most of the Army is stationed in Manchuria.


When the USSR collapsed China regained North Manchuria.

General idea of Areas, Borders are wild approximations

IJE.png
 
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