damein fisher
Banned
What if in the 1954 Geneva Conference, the region of Tonkin was kept separate from the rest of Vietnam as its own country? What might be the effects of such a county existing in the region?
Hmm.. need to read up on this. I recall there were groups proposing this as late as 1974.
If you go for a separate Tonkin, it'd have to happen in a Union Indochinoise, which'd be dominated by Vietnam
Do you mean that North Vietnam consists of only Tonkin? Or do you mean there is some indpendent (Democratic?) Republic of Tonkin, with Ho Chich Minh controlling the parts of Annam north of the DMZ? The latter seems very unlikely, as there was no real Tonkinese identity and the most powerful force in the area was Ho's communists.
What if in the 1954 Geneva Conference, the region of Tonkin was kept separate from the rest of Vietnam as its own country? What might be the effects of such a county existing in the region?
As @ComradeH pointed out, Tonkin was one of the three subdivisions of French Indochina. There was a plan to have all the subdivisions together in a Federation.What do you mean?
Now, that separation wasn't entirely artificial as Cochinchine had been a recent conquest from the N'Guyen at the time of French colonisation and Tonkin/Annam was a relatively common separation that dated from a few centuries (the Portuguese named it Tonkin after the old name for Hanoi if I remember correctly).
A Union Indochinoise would effectively be a Vietnamese federation with vassalised Laos/Cambodge.
Yeah, not sure for Tonkin, didn't check my sources. I remember it's a deformation from Dong Quin or something similarA bit of un-related information. I'm not sure about the name "Tonkin" being an old name for Hanoi - but it is likely that some old names in Vietnamese get "mis-pronounced" by the French, and when the Portuguese heard it, more deviations were made. And the part about "Union of Indochina" is sort of a running gag in Vietnamese society, something like "if we really pushed for it in early 20th century, our country would be three times as big now". A proposed name for it is "VCL" - which can either stand for Vietnam - Cambodia - Laos, or "holy fucking shit!" A wordplay in Vietnamese...
Still, I don't think the Cochinchina was a "late" conquest, at least, not for the French. They invaded and got controlled of this region (Mekong Delta area, today) first, then through a series of placate attitude from the then-Royal Dynasty (Nguyen Dynasty), the French was slowly but surely able to put Vietnam into their colony map. If I remember correctly, they also set up three different authority styles for three regions: protectorate for Tonkin, semi-colony for Annam (with a "theoretical" autonomy for the Royal), and (full) colony for Cochichina. Needless to say, it made a rift among our people, some traces of it can still be found today (but they are rather enhanced by the Vietnam War with the American "democracy", so... yeah...)
Anyway, back for Cochinchina, it is, by Vietnamese standard, the latest addition - finished by the mark of 19th century (ish). As usual, it was thanks to a series of fighting, intimidation, trading, marriage, and stuff like that. Of course, late or not, it is considered as a part of Vietnam now, and anyone has the bright idea to separate it or to annex it into another country (cueing a certain country to our southwest)... just say the result will not be pretty.
Yeah, not sure for Tonkin, didn't check my sources. I remember it's a deformation from Dong Quin or something similar
Cochinchina is interesting because I'm not sure how much it had been colonised by the Viet before the French arrived. Saigon was just a small village if I recall
Tonkin was, as far as Europeans were concerned, the old name the region, dating back from the Portuguese. Dong Kinh would be easily deformed into Tonkin.For reference, the name used for now-Hanoi in this era is "Dong Kinh" (ie, the City/Citadel in the East). I'm not sure about its naming in other languages though. During this era, the now-HCMC was called Gia Dinh, and it was the city of the region (I think). The main stay of the region was agriculture with various sayings about the fertility of the land and river.
I heard conflicting info about Saigon's development. I heard it was developed by the French mostly, but there was already a fortress there so that's strange. My sources might be biased too
It was however a big center of the Opium trade. The official capital of Indochine Française wasn't in Saigon for long anyway, went to Hanoi after the Protectorate if I recall.You are right on both count. There was a fortress in Sai Gon area (it was called Gia Dinh by then), and a few more. These systems were in place before 19th century (especially Gia Dinh, considered it belonged to the first Emperor of Nguyen Dynasty before his crowning in 1802). However, it was the French who literally transformed the city into a "tourist attraction" - not so sure if it was "center of enlightenment" though.