I think Ireland staying with the UK would promote some sort of federalism, as Ireland would still have a very pronounced local identity and would demand more autonomy than Northern Ireland had done IOTL. Scotland would then go along with that.
Russell,
let me guarantee you living off social welfare benefits is very much a lifestyle choice for a lot of Irish people and they are far better than in the UK for sure today as is our educational system, though Scotland in fairness is highly regarded internationally in this respect!
Just look at the figures over 50K per year tax free and sundry benefits for a couple with 10 sprogs, in Scandanavia, Holland, Germany, which are countries with reknowned social welfare systems, bells would be ringing in their community affairs departments leading to constantly keeping an eye on such 'families' with a view to placing those children into care, rather than enabling them to reproduce and replicate the insanity further!!!!!!!!
Russell,
let me guarantee you living off social welfare benefits is very much a lifestyle choice for a lot of Irish people and they are far better than in the UK for sure today as is our educational system, though Scotland in fairness is highly regarded internationally in this respect!
Just look at the figures over 50K per year tax free and sundry benefits for a couple with 10 sprogs, in Scandanavia, Holland, Germany, which are countries with reknowned social welfare systems, bells would be ringing in their community affairs departments leading to constantly keeping an eye on such 'families' with a view to placing those children into care, rather than enabling them to reproduce and replicate the insanity further!!!!!!!!
You said the population of Scotland had shrunk over the twentieth century. I proved this to be completely untrue. When I compared the population of Ireland and Scotland over the twentieth century, you stated that I must be comparing the whole of Ireland with RoI. I was not.Fletcher,
The population of Ireland if it was in the UK, specifically the 26 counties of the Republic as it now is would be smaller than it actually is today, we traditionally had extremely high levels of emmigration and this would continue at a faster rate to mainland Britain in a United Kingdom of GB and I.
anyway getting back to the point of the bloody thread.
most people posting are only talking about the liberalising affects this will have on Ireland and not looking at the reverse.
IIRC homosexuality was only made legal in Scotland in 1980 and I.N 1982 (with abortion still being illegal-ish there).
If Westminster has a lot more Irish MPs who are more passionate about things like abortion, divorce ect (who aren’t busy arguing about sectarian issue’s) social reform might get held up for quite a while. This might even lead to the Tory’s picking up Irish votes, providing the Tories put "fight and be right" behind them.
( this sounds a bit ASB put to use an OTL parallel, a lot of the modern Tory parties ethnic minority MPs are from conservative Asian back grounds. which would have seemed absurd in the 70's or 80's)
Fletcher,
The population of Ireland if it was in the UK, specifically the 26 counties of the Republic as it now is would be smaller than it actually is today, we traditionally had extremely high levels of emmigration and this would continue at a faster rate to mainland Britain in a United Kingdom of GB and I.
1) The UK's Abortion Act has still not been extended to N Ireland. Its is still illegal in Northern Ireland.
2) WRT the Tories, I think by the time the fights over homesexuality and abortion begin the "fight and be right" would be at least 50 years in the past, at least. The Irish will eventually discover that the Tory agenda has a lot of things that they like. Anyway the Tories have had a history. They have elected a Jew, A bachelor (read thought to be gay) and a woman as a PM. Which is something niether the Libs or Labour have ever done.
Challenge; have a openly gay, Southern Irish, female, Tory PM by 2011!![]()
The Anglo-Irish Ascendancy in the South of Ireland opposed Partition because they didn't want to weaken the Protestant position in Ireland yet further after Home Rule.
Well there's a difference between a Irish Catholic middle class, which is what you're talking about, and an Irish Catholic upper class, which there wasn't much of - in my eyes upper class means landed gentry, aristocrats and very wealthy merchants/industrialists, and the vast majority of all three groups were composed of Irish Protestants.A professional Irish Catholic middle class had certainly become quite well established by the 20th century and there was an Irish merchant class consisting of many Catholics from the mid 19th century for sure. With the unfortunate decline in our protestant population in the ROI post independence going from 10% to about 3% but thankfully growing today, these catholics in the merchant and professional classes became dominant and ultimately they for the most part operated closed shop practices which prevented ordinary working class Catholics from accessing the professions and well paid jobs which continues to this day! Why do you think so many decent and well educated Irish people have had to run out of here? I know it rains alot but its not down to the weather for sure!
Prior to The British being removed as our Imperial masters in ROI, the civil service was becomming Hibernized any way with Irish Catholics heading towards a majority within it, if not already there by that time. Also Irish people played a massive role in developing the civil service in colonial India, to such an extent AFAIK, that the traditional British establishment were getting mad jealous and had to try and stop them!
A professional Irish Catholic middle class had certainly become quite well established by the 20th century and there was an Irish merchant class consisting of many Catholics from the mid 19th century for sure. With the unfortunate decline in our protestant population in the ROI post independence going from 10% to about 3% but thankfully growing today, these catholics in the merchant and professional classes became dominant and ultimately they for the most part operated closed shop practices which prevented ordinary working class Catholics from accessing the professions and well paid jobs which continues to this day! Why do you think so many decent and well educated Irish people have had to run out of here? I know it rains alot but its not down to the weather for sure!
Prior to The British being removed as our Imperial masters in ROI, the civil service was becomming Hibernized any way with Irish Catholics heading towards a majority within it, if not already there by that time. Also Irish people played a massive role in developing the civil service in colonial India, to such an extent AFAIK, that the traditional British establishment were getting mad jealous and had to try and stop them!
This thread has to estalish first how and why Ireland remains in the UK before it can tackle the challenges of the (middle of the) twentieth century.