What would "actual" reformed pagan faiths look like?

This might be interesting. According to Wikipedia article of Slavic Paganism during the early reign of Vladimir the Great before he converted to Christianity there were attempts to reform the various beliefs of the Eastern Slavic people as part of his attempts to centralise the Rus' and establish Kiev as the spiritual centre for Eastern Slavdom. Assuming that his decision, most likely political, to embrace Christianity is prevented it could lay the foundation for a pagan reformation of sorts.

Another thing I have been thinking about is the potential for syncretisation between Baltic, Slavic, Finnish and Germanic Paganisms. There is sufficient overlap between them in terms of cosmology and deities, largely due to shared Indo-European roots, and I could see concious attempts to blend them together and draw parallels as part of the state-building of a large independent pagan Empire based around the Baltic Sea. If such a state/religion is able to hold out long enough I could see them attempting to maybe draw parallels between their faith and Hellenistic Paganism both for the prestige and as a means of constructing a counter-Christian identity which could be used for proselytising conquered Christian lands, i.e. we're not imposing an alien religion on you we're restoring the true Gods that your ancestors worshipped and which you still have a passing knowledge and understanding of through your folklore and history.

I'm working on something similar, albeit coming from a very different direction with a much earlier POD. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the extent your (presumably Saxon-centered?) empire would be able slash willing to syncretize with neighboring religions. Not to mention wanting to get at your sources! &)
 
I'm working on something similar, albeit coming from a very different direction with a much earlier POD. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the extent your (presumably Saxon-centered?) empire would be able slash willing to syncretize with neighboring religions. Not to mention wanting to get at your sources! &)
A lot of the initial pressure for syncretism is going to be due to the close proximity of the Saxons and the various Wendish/Polabian Slavic groups, such as the Obotrites, Lutici/Veleti, Sorbs and Rani, who are going to be early additions to Saxony's expanding hegemony, as well a the Bohemians/Moravians who are going to be brought into Saxony's sphere of influence initially thorough a marriage alliance against the Bavarians and Poles but become increasingly subordinated in the aftermath of the disruption caused by the Magyar invasions.

In addition, as I am working on the premise that the Saxon Kings are going to increase their power and influence within the Saxon polity over time, the Saxons are going to embrace some of the institutional practices of Slavic Paganism and blend it with their own traditions. One of the main differences between Germanic and Slavic paganisms is in terms of priest structures. Germanic pagans had looser and less defined priesthoods with Kings and local rulers presiding over many religious ceremonies. In contrast the Slavic pagans had a more defined and separate priestly class, often centred around temple complexes and holy sites such as Radgosc and Arkona. Over time the Saxons co-opt this priestly structure to better help rule their Slavic subjects, in sharp contrast to the Christians IOTL who violently suppressed them and their culture, and eventually expand it within their German territories. Over time the Saxon Imperial Cult, at least in part, emerges as a result of the blending of these two traditions with the King serving as High Priest and the clergy directly subordinate to him.

Finally there are also demographic factors that will lead to a blending of different traditions across the Baltic Sea. The Saxons briefly have a period of supremacy where they end up going Alexander the Great on a Europe reeling from the Magyar raids, Viking Age and Muslim conquests and are able to conquer everything between Northern France and Lithuania, albeit very briefly before the whole thing comes crashing down the moment the King dies. The result of this is that large numbers of people from the various cultures are moved around, either as a result of being taken as slaves or soldiers and allies being rewarded with land grants in conquered territories. In addition there are also the various Scandinavian people who traded, raided and established settlements throughout the Finnish, Baltic and Pommeranian coasts. When Saxony and the various successor states that arise in the aftermath of the post-Saxon chaos begin to centralise and consolidate their position the state religion is going to blend elements of the different pagan traditions, as well as elements of Christianity and Judaism (I have some interesting ideas for how Judaism is going to develop over time), together.

I'm also thinking of having the Livonians become an established regional power incorporating territory inhabited by Finnish, Baltic and Slavic people as well as maintaining contact with Scandinavia and Saxony, which would provide ample ground for syncretisation to occur.

In terms of sources I'm currently in the browsing Wikipedia articles stage although I have also brought a few books on the Christianisation Europe, though the one I am currently reading seems to be focused more on Hagiographies than sociological and anthropological information of the pre-Christian societies in question. I am trying to find more stuff on Slavic, Baltic and Finnish religion and culture but unfortunately a lot of the stuff I'm looking for is behind paywalls or are out of print academic books that cost far more than I am willing to pay for.
 
I see those similarities, too. Eastern Slavs are in a key position here, both for reasons pertaining to belief systems (they were familiar with Balts, Uralic and germanic groups alike) and because they had non-Christian prosperous neighbours they could focus their trade on (khazaria, volga bulgaria).
 
A lot of the initial pressure for syncretism is going to be due to the close proximity of the Saxons and the various Wendish/Polabian Slavic groups, such as the Obotrites, Lutici/Veleti, Sorbs and Rani, who are going to be early additions to Saxony's expanding hegemony, as well a the Bohemians/Moravians who are going to be brought into Saxony's sphere of influence initially thorough a marriage alliance against the Bavarians and Poles but become increasingly subordinated in the aftermath of the disruption caused by the Magyar invasions.

Ah, understood.

In addition, as I am working on the premise that the Saxon Kings are going to increase their power and influence within the Saxon polity over time, the Saxons are going to embrace some of the institutional practices of Slavic Paganism and blend it with their own traditions. One of the main differences between Germanic and Slavic paganisms is in terms of priest structures. Germanic pagans had looser and less defined priesthoods with Kings and local rulers presiding over many religious ceremonies. In contrast the Slavic pagans had a more defined and separate priestly class, often centred around temple complexes and holy sites such as Radgosc and Arkona. Over time the Saxons co-opt this priestly structure to better help rule their Slavic subjects, in sharp contrast to the Christians IOTL who violently suppressed them and their culture, and eventually expand it within their German territories. Over time the Saxon Imperial Cult, at least in part, emerges as a result of the blending of these two traditions with the King serving as High Priest and the clergy directly subordinate to him.

Interesting! Although I could envisage some reaction among Saxon Saxons as a priestly class of foreign origin creeps into their lives, probably displacing religious functions that had been more democratized.

Finally there are also demographic factors that will lead to a blending of different traditions across the Baltic Sea. The Saxons briefly have a period of supremacy where they end up going Alexander the Great on a Europe reeling from the Magyar raids, Viking Age and Muslim conquests and are able to conquer everything between Northern France and Lithuania, albeit very briefly before the whole thing comes crashing down the moment the King dies. The result of this is that large numbers of people from the various cultures are moved around, either as a result of being taken as slaves or soldiers and allies being rewarded with land grants in conquered territories. In addition there are also the various Scandinavian people who traded, raided and established settlements throughout the Finnish, Baltic and Pommeranian coasts. When Saxony and the various successor states that arise in the aftermath of the post-Saxon chaos begin to centralise and consolidate their position the state religion is going to blend elements of the different pagan traditions, as well as elements of Christianity and Judaism (I have some interesting ideas for how Judaism is going to develop over time), together.

I'm also thinking of having the Livonians become an established regional power incorporating territory inhabited by Finnish, Baltic and Slavic people as well as maintaining contact with Scandinavia and Saxony, which would provide ample ground for syncretisation to occur.

Huh. Why the Livonians for that, if you don't mind my asking? Just far enough away that Saxony can't properly attempt to conquer them, allowing them to assume more of a competitor role?

In terms of sources I'm currently in the browsing Wikipedia articles stage although I have also brought a few books on the Christianisation Europe, though the one I am currently reading seems to be focused more on Hagiographies than sociological and anthropological information of the pre-Christian societies in question. I am trying to find more stuff on Slavic, Baltic and Finnish religion and culture but unfortunately a lot of the stuff I'm looking for is behind paywalls or are out of print academic books that cost far more than I am willing to pay for.

It's difficult. Have you gotten anywhere researching the Slavs before the migration period? The status then is gallingly obscure - I expect I'll mostly have to extrapolate backwards from what little information we have on medieval Slavs based on the archaeology.
 
Interesting! Although I could envisage some reaction among Saxon Saxons as a priestly class of foreign origin creeps into their lives, probably displacing religious functions that had been more democratized.

Undoubtedly. These cultural, political and religious transformations are long and messy process and there is going to be conflict, struggle and reaction at every juncture. In the long-run it is part of the general transformation of a semi-republican loose tribal confederacy into an absolutist theocratic empire.

Huh. Why the Livonians for that, if you don't mind my asking? Just far enough away that Saxony can't properly attempt to conquer them, allowing them to assume more of a competitor role?

A number of reasons. As one of histories losers, the Livonian Crusade devastated them and reduced the region to a place that other people fought and ruled over, I think it would be interesting give them a more prominent position. They rise to prominence in the aftermath of the Saxon Supremacy where the Saxon Empire spread as far east as Curonia and the territories beyond that were mostly vassalised. Then when the massively overextended Saxon Empire begins to collapse a generation later it creates a power vacuum that the Livonians are able to fill. With their core territory based around the Gulfs of Riga and Finland they are able to expand north into Finland, south into Lithuania and east into the Rus', whilst also establishing close relations with the Swedes, becoming one of the major powers in the eastern Baltic. They are also ideally suited geographically to be a major crossroads and melting-pot of cultures, languages and religions. They also never face the sort of slap down like the Livonian Crusade IOTL.
 
One idea that's occasionally struck me with regards to an alternative Reformed Roman Polytheism is a timeline where Rome embraced Manichaeism instead of Christianity. Manichaeism historically has been a lot more open to syncretising with the religions it coexisted with and had already made a number of concessions to polytheism through incorporating elements of Zoroastrianism. Its cosmology based on the idea of the world as a flawed and imperfect creation and its dualism between evil/material and good/spiritual could fit quite well with Platonic ideas of the world as an imperfect reflection of pure forms; which could appeal to the philosophical Roman elites. It has the same universalism and promise of universal salvation that made Christianity so popular. It's close enough to Christianity to be able to assimilate those communities into it. Its dualistic nature and light versus darkness motif could gel well with the Roman worldview, especially if they are able to define the Empire as the realm of light in a world beset by darkness/barbarism, and would be a useful ideological tool in their wars against the Sassanid Persians who murdered Mani in the first place.

The way I could see it developing is that certain popular deities, in particular those with a Sun/Light motif such as Sol Invictus and Appollo, could be reinterpreted as aspects of God and other deities interpreted as servants, angels or lesser Gods beneath him, which would also come in handy for assimilating new religions. Troublesome sects could also be demonised as worshipping Satan or his servants. There would still be intellectual room for various forms of henotheism through Mystery Cults and temples and ceremonies dedicated to particular Gods whilst Manichee texts could provide a unifying scripture and philosophical, theological and cosmological framework whilst also maintaining the universalist appeal that Christianity had. In many ways it could look a bit like Hinduism.
 
It's difficult. Have you gotten anywhere researching the Slavs before the migration period? The status then is gallingly obscure - I expect I'll mostly have to extrapolate backwards from what little information we have on medieval Slavs based on the archaeology.

It's very difficult. The primary sources on the early proto- and just Slavs can be all read in an afternoon in toto. Archaeology is a little better but not particularly revealing either.
 
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