What would a Spartacist state look like?

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What if the Spartacists were successful in coming to power during the German Revolution? How would they have run things with leaders like Luxemburg, Liebknecht, Eisner, Zetkin, etc? What would have happened to Germany if it was the Free Socialist Republic, Liebknecht proclaimed it to be on the balcony of the Kaiser's Palace in Berlin?

For some reason, I always thought that a Spartacist Germany would always end up much better than a Bolshevik Russia. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I'm such a big fan of maverick's Red Eagle Rises TL. Or it could be Luxembourg's strong commitment to Democracy and Liebknecht's opposition to militarism (although some militarism would be necessary to fight the rightists, maybe this urgent need to defend against reactionary forces would convince him to allow some degree of militarism, just enough to keep order). And aside from that, the fact that Germany was a highly industrialized country with a strong proletariat, much more advanced and ready for socialism than Russia.

If Spartacist Germany avoids subservience to Moscow and turns out a much better place than Bolshevik Russia, it could maybe result in a huge ideological split between the two countries and the emergence of two major, opposing strains of World Communism, Bolshevism and Spartacism. Spartacism of course being the more democratic, peaceful and progressive one of the two. (In maverick's brilliant TL, something pretty similar happened when Red Germany and Russia went to war.)

But that is IF Spartacist Germany carries out Socialism differently and/or much better than the Bolsheviks which is something I'm not entirely sure about which is why I created this thread.
 
We could have a similar thread in the pre 1900 section, where Sparticus defeats the Romans! And the slaves take over the running of ROME. How would society develop then!?
 

ninebucks

Banned
How ready would the rest of Western Europe be to tolerate a socialist state in their midst? I can imagine the Spartacists having a difficult time as Britain and France try to choke their revolution through economic means, (the French still occuppy the Rheinland at this time, yes?).
 
For some reason, I always thought that a Spartacist Germany would always end up much better than a Bolshevik Russia.

At least it would be very different. For instance the idea of socialism in one country would never arise in Germany as it is surrounded with non-communist countries.
In Germany there would be no need for an extensive industrialisation, which would on it's own be a major improvement. As there are fewer farmers in German there would also be less collecitivisation.
On the other hand there would doubtlessly a serious crack-down on the old Junkers and the Industrial leaders. If the revolution don't spread to the newly founded Austria there will many conservative immigrants there.

Or it could be Luxembourg's strong commitment to Democracy

If the revolution is before the SPD turns against the communists, then they could continue to exist in a spartacist Germany. However I can't imagine a party like the DNVP or the DVP beeing allowed.

and Liebknecht's opposition to militarism (although some militarism would be necessary to fight the rightists, maybe this urgent need to defend against reactionary forces would convince him to allow some degree of militarism, just enough to keep order).

Well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

And aside from that, the fact that Germany was a highly industrialized country with a strong proletariat, much more advanced and ready for socialism than Russia.

Yes that will surley help.

If Spartacist Germany avoids subservience to Moscow and turns out a much better place than Bolshevik Russia, it could maybe result in a huge ideological split between the two countries and the emergence of two major, opposing strains of World Communism, Bolshevism and Spartacism. Spartacism of course being the more democratic, peaceful and progressive one of the two. (In maverick's brilliant TL, something pretty similar happened when Red Germany and Russia went to war.)

While that may well happen in the long run the two communist countrie will certainly be allies at first: Russia will be in desperate need for industrial products and Germany will need raw materials and a market for their products. They also have a common enemy in Poland. So until around the thirties the could get along with each other quiet well.
Such a cooperation would allow them to get through the great depression without too much damage.
 
How ready would the rest of Western Europe be to tolerate a socialist state in their midst? I can imagine the Spartacists having a difficult time as Britain and France try to choke their revolution through economic means, (the French still occuppy the Rheinland at this time, yes?).

While that may well happen in the long run the two communist countrie will certainly be allies at first: Russia will be in desperate need for industrial products and Germany will need raw materials and a market for their products. They also have a common enemy in Poland. So until around the thirties the could get along with each other quiet well.
Such a cooperation would allow them to get through the great depression without too much damage.

How about the Soviets being aided by the Germans in their war with Poland in the 20's? After the defeat of Poland, the two Communist nations could be linked and the possibilities there would be interesting.
If the revolution is before the SPD turns against the communists, then they could continue to exist in a spartacist Germany. However I can't imagine a party like the DNVP or the DVP beeing allowed.
To what extent could there be democracy in such a Germany? Most likely, the Spartacist League would rule Germany as a one-party state which wouldn't be very democratic at all. Could there be some system Germany could adopt that exists between being a one-pary state and being a democracy? Or democracy could just be betrayed as it was in Russia but let that not happen ITTL.

OR would it be possible for the Spartacist League to become a sort of permanent ruling coalition or "League" of left-wing Marxist parties as opposed to it being just a single traditional political party? Still allowing the people to choose between various parties during an election? Although alll those parties would be left-wing and/or Marxist.
 
At least it would be very different. For instance the idea of socialism in one country would never arise in Germany as it is surrounded with non-communist countries.
In Germany there would be no need for an extensive industrialisation, which would on it's own be a major improvement. As there are fewer farmers in German there would also be less collecitivisation.
On the other hand there would doubtlessly a serious crack-down on the old Junkers and the Industrial leaders. If the revolution don't spread to the newly founded Austria there will many conservative immigrants there.



If the revolution is before the SPD turns against the communists, then they could continue to exist in a spartacist Germany. However I can't imagine a party like the DNVP or the DVP beeing allowed.



Well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.



Yes that will surley help.



While that may well happen in the long run the two communist countrie will certainly be allies at first: Russia will be in desperate need for industrial products and Germany will need raw materials and a market for their products. They also have a common enemy in Poland. So until around the thirties the could get along with each other quiet well.
Such a cooperation would allow them to get through the great depression without too much damage.

Maybe a DDR-like scenery, with KPD-SPD-USPD joined in a People's Front of sorts which monopolyzes elections ?
 
It is likely that Allied forces still in Europe would attempt to occupy Germany. At this point, the USSR would use this as an excuse to declare war on the Allies and spread communism to the west. The resulting war would be far longer and possibly even bloodier than the Great War. The war would carry on until either the two sides ran out of manpower or someone split the atom. Eastern Europe would simply be a battle ground and the civillian casualties would be astronomical.
 

Ryan

Donor
It is likely that Allied forces still in Europe would attempt to occupy Germany. At this point, the USSR would use this as an excuse to declare war on the Allies and spread communism to the west. The resulting war would be far longer and possibly even bloodier than the Great War. The war would carry on until either the two sides ran out of manpower or someone split the atom. Eastern Europe would simply be a battle ground and the civillian casualties would be astronomical.

a bit of advice; its generally frowned upon to necro a thread if you're not the author. if a thread has the red age warning and you want to talk about the subject, it would be better to start a new thread.
 
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