What would a South Frankish kingdom (In Northern Italy) be called?

  • Lotharingia or some variant

    Votes: 27 29.0%
  • Lombardy

    Votes: 64 68.8%
  • Padania

    Votes: 5 5.4%
  • Something derived from the name Cisalpine Gaul

    Votes: 9 9.7%
  • Another name (explain in your own post)

    Votes: 8 8.6%

  • Total voters
    93

Vuu

Banned
Any notable tribe/nation in the area?

I say Piedmont or something similar - after all, it stretches across the Alps. Maybe Provence as well. Adjust the terms so the language used back then and there you go. Where would it's core be? Can even be Liguria or Padania
 

Kaze

Banned
You could always named it after its current King - Lothar - and founding father of the dynasty. So...Lotharian Kingdom?
 
Questions like "what would a country be called" are rather pointless. I can guarantee you that no one back in those days used terms like "East Francia" or "West Francia" to describe where they lived. We live in an era where national identities and state borders are very clearly defined. It's important not to project that view into the distant past.
 
Since there seems to be a general consensus that Occitan would be the main language in South Francia, can anyone point me in the direction of some useful resources for naming conventions (I'm especially interested in place names, since I want Occitan names for the regions of South Francia)
 
Questions like "what would a country be called" are rather pointless. I can guarantee you that no one back in those days used terms like "East Francia" or "West Francia" to describe where they lived. We live in an era where national identities and state borders are very clearly defined. It's important not to project that view into the distant past.

Fair point, but these names might stick, or at least would be used in later historical texts in an ATL (thus, useful for, say, writing a TL on the topic). Also, by the early modern period, European states had defined names, many of which originated in the middle ages, so knowing what names would influence later ones could be useful. I don't think it's fair to throw "what would alternate country X be called?" threads in the trash just like that. (of course, you are entitled to your own opinion)
 
Questions like "what would a country be called" are rather pointless. I can guarantee you that no one back in those days used terms like "East Francia" or "West Francia" to describe where they lived. We live in an era where national identities and state borders are very clearly defined. It's important not to project that view into the distant past.

In fact the name « Regnum occidentalis francorum » (West Kingdom of the Franks) is attested to medieval times. We also know that Philippe II Auguste was the first to call himself « Rex franciae » (King of France).
 
Medieval Latin would shift into Occitan, the Poetic language of Italy was Occitan which would endanger the Northern Italian dialects in the Long term like what Tuscan did to them IOTL.
Not really. Tuscan replaced the other italian dialects FOR THE UPPER CLASSES only in the early modern era, the Renaissance. But that has to do with the economic (and therefore, cultural) power of the region in the time period. Which occitan wont be able to compete in the time period where it actually mathers. If occitan can be displaced as lenguage of power by french then in a northern italian state that controls the Rhone valley they could suffer the same fate but at the hands of a northern italian dialect. Unless you make the occitan lands (and so the cities and lords of the region) more economically powerful by the Renaissance era then the northern italian and Northern french dialects then they are gonna lose regardless of occitan poetry.
 
Medieval Latin would shift into Occitan, the Poetic language of Italy was Occitan which would endanger the Northern Italian dialects in the Long term like what Tuscan did to them IOTL.

No, Latin existed along with these tongues and allows a transit of information without harming local identities and causing regional divisionism as seen in the Occitan under France.
 
Not really. Tuscan replaced the other italian dialects FOR THE UPPER CLASSES only in the early modern era, the Renaissance. But that has to do with the economic (and therefore, cultural) power of the region in the time period. Which occitan wont be able to compete in the time period where it actually mathers. If occitan can be displaced as lenguage of power by french then in a northern italian state that controls the Rhone valley they could suffer the same fate but at the hands of a northern italian dialect. Unless you make the occitan lands (and so the cities and lords of the region) more economically powerful by the Renaissance era then the northern italian and Northern french dialects then they are gonna lose regardless of occitan poetry.

The Tuscan Poets were influenced by Occitan so the Tuscan intellectuals would write in Occitan first, it did not matter if Tuscan was powerful or the Center, we should remember that Rome is the Capital of Italy and Tuscany was not - it was a language under influence by Occitan compared to Northern France already had a strong identity along with Occitan and not influenced by it.

The other issue here we see is Occitan assimilating Franco-Provencal, Lombard, Piedmontese and Ligurian before the Modern Era.

No, Latin existed along with these tongues and allows a transit of information without harming local identities and causing regional divisionism as seen in the Occitan under France.

True.
 
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