What would a Non-Nazi but fascist Germany be like?

pretty much what the title says. In order of course, firstly how could such a thing happen, and what sort of goals would they have over all. Would Anti-Semitism still play a part (Nazi Lite) or would they be more anti-communist/anti-western allies?

And, what possible butterflies would this create?
 

wormyguy

Banned
Italian Fascism (and most other European fascist and fascist-lite movements as well) was pretty much an explicitly Catholic ideology, and many Catholic Germans lived in Austria, the Sudetenland, the territories lost to Poland etc., so this is a bit difficult.
 
Fascism can be defined as militarist ultra-nationalism. Nazism is basically the same plus biological supremacy and antisemitism. It is therefore very difficult to separate the two in a OTL-historical Germany.

Non-Nazi fascism would mean

a) Nietsche's original ideology of "the strong survive" is adhered to. Nietsche never meant to say only white men were 'strong'; people of all races are included.
b) Someone Else (not the jews) is to blame. The French, maybe, or the communists. For a strictly christian (protestant) society, though, jews are a welcome target.

Possibilities:
1- the jews probably still get whacked because they're a likely target.
2- Arabs, negroes and Asians are more readily accepted as equals when they've proven their people's strenght (or usefulness) thereby actually strenghtening fascist Germany's position.
3- 'Strong nations' like England will probably be treated with (even) more respect (or envy) by the fascists than in OTL.
 

Deleted member 1487

Ultranationalist. Look up Schliecher and Stahlhelm, as they would likely be the driving force behind things. Germany would still be a republic, as I think Schliecher wasn't as bold as Hitler and would try to focus on the economy and diplomacy to achieve his aims, rather than strong-arming the Allies to get all that Hitler did. Basically I doubt a non-Nazi Germany would fight anyone.
 

DISSIDENT

Banned
The most likely scenario for this, IMHO, is the OKW/Reichswehr taking over the government, either after a Weimar government crisis, Allied reparation collection at gunpoint or more or worse Communist/Spartacist/Bavarian Soviet uprisings.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Italian Fascism (and most other European fascist and fascist-lite movements as well) was pretty much an explicitly Catholic ideology, and many Catholic Germans lived in Austria, the Sudetenland, the territories lost to Poland etc., so this is a bit difficult.
German Protestants actually tended to vote for far-right parties more than Catholics, who were pretty solidly behind the Zentrumspartei. In fact, Nazis had a great deal of difficulty making inroads into Catholic communities prior to their assumption of power in '33.

On the whole, however, you are correct in that "fascist" was basically interchangeable with "Catholic far-right" in Europe.

Frankly, I have a difficult time seeing Germany go "fascist" as opposed to "right-wing military dictatorship." However, various far-right and fascist leagues will have a great say in how the state is run.

The idea that institutionalized anti-Semitism would not have arisen without the Nazis is absurd; anti-Semitism was far from unpopular in interwar Germany, especially on the right.

A fascist Germany's fate is entirely dependent on who the Leader is. I always thought that Göring had the potential to be a German Mussolini.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Non-Nazi fascism would mean

a) Nietsche's original ideology of "the strong survive" is adhered to. Nietsche never meant to say only white men were 'strong'; people of all races are included.
That race was not the central tenant of fascism does not at all mean that it will be ignored. Fascism is inherently xenophobic and the völkisch movement that had kicked off before WWI and was only accelerated by the loss is impossible for the Right to ignore. Blood laws are going to appear just as they did IOTL.
b) Someone Else (not the jews) is to blame. The French, maybe, or the communists. For a strictly christian (protestant) society, though, jews are a welcome target.
Jews, socialists, liberals, pacifists, "degenerates," profiteers, etc. Same old cast of characters.
1- the jews probably still get whacked because they're a likely target.
We'll likely see a continuation of brutal "encouragements" to emigrate. No Treblinkas or Auschwitzes, but more Kristallnachts and Babi Yars.
2- Arabs, negroes and Asians are more readily accepted as equals when they've proven their people's strenght (or usefulness) thereby actually strenghtening fascist Germany's position.
Not gonna happen. Seen as useful mercenaries/auxiliaries? Sure. "Accepted as equals?" Never.
3- 'Strong nations' like England will probably be treated with (even) more respect (or envy) by the fascists than in OTL.
Classic fascist formula is simultaneous terror and contempt.
 
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The stereotypical Nazi Germany from old movies, before the Holocaust was reveled and the persecution of the Jews by the Nazis taken more seriously. That is what it would look like.

If the word "Fascist" doesn't bring to mind Racism, Hate, and Genocide (albeit there would be the chance of mass execution of 'undesirables' still, such as the handicapped), that could actually serve to not discredit Fascism like Fascism was discredited in the OTL.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
We need this as a timeline now.

Wasn't Goring more of a Prussian Monarchist/Imperialist anyways?
More of an imperialist than a monarchist; excellent relations and shared ambitions with the Junkers, though he never seems to have had much affection for the Hohenzollerns.
 

Jason222

Banned
Nuclear arm Germany scary thought if Germany been Fascist but not Nazi like way dealt Jews. Germany load nuclear physicist they have bomb before anyone know going on.
 
Just throw out there that I have a Fascist Germany in my tl, Hitler dies in 1923 and sets the path for the DNVP to take over. With some help...
 
Ooo, perhaps a non-Nazi Fascism could restore the Kaiser to the throne? Italy certainly was such a state, and some Imperials thought it might happen.
 
Ooo, perhaps a non-Nazi Fascism could restore the Kaiser to the throne? Italy certainly was such a state, and some Imperials thought it might happen.

Interesting idea, but would it be the Hohenzollern? A lot of Germans felt betrayed by the Kaisers attampt to flee the nation.
 
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