What would a Nazi-Polish vs. Soviet war in 1939 look like?

And they were stuck there for basically the past 2 years until the Russians collapsed, which rather nicely shows they were at their limits.



Nah, it's mainly because the Germans are logistically in '39 much weaker compared to their '41 offensive. You know the saying about amateurs and professionals...

Why yes I am familiar with that quote... which is why I keep mentioning the importance of all those trucks seized from the West in 1940.

Really when you look at it, the maximum Nazi advance in 1942 is little different from their maximum advance in 1918. It really comes down to the railroads in the end, and they were not substantially different in either year. The mechanized forces of the 1940s were faster in operational terms, made encirclement battles easier to accomplish, but when you add the weight of their logistical needs to the equation it still means that the War in the East is based on the railroads.

"Supplying War" made that point very well but you can also see it readily by comparing a map of German occupation in 1918 to that of 1942.
 
Really when you look at it, the maximum Nazi advance in 1942 is little different from their maximum advance in 1918. It really comes down to the railroads in the end, and they were not substantially different in either year. The mechanized forces of the 1940s were faster in operational terms, made encirclement battles easier to accomplish, but when you add the weight of their logistical needs to the equation it still means that the War in the East is based on the railroads.

"Supplying War" made that point very well but you can also see it readily by comparing a map of German occupation in 1918 to that of 1942.

The difference is that the advance in 1917-1918 was made against no resistance while the advance of 1941-'42 was made against furious resistance. That's an entire world of difference. Plus, greater German logistical weakness extends to railroads as well given that the Germans in 1939 have fewer men for it and railway repair equipment then in 1941.

Additionally, in some ways the greater primitiveness of the German army in 1910s worked in their favor from a logistical perspective... as did the French in 1812. I'm reminded of a post-war account from a German soldier who arrived on the Eastern Front in September 1941 and talked with a veteran who had been there awhile. It ran something like this:

New Arrivee: "It's amazing how far we've advanced!"
Veteran: "Yet we still haven't gotten as far as Napoleon had by this time..."
New Arrivee: "But our technical capabilities are so much greater then Napoleon's?"
Veteran: "Yes, and consequently so is their ability to fail us..."
 
Not really, when you consider the German logistical weakness and the slower advance that would result. Their ability to exploit battlefield victories is lesser.

There are many games that allow you to game out on a variety of scales the War in the East. I recommend you try them out if you haven't. Some allow for modifications to the scenario to earlier start times, different force levels etc.

I think the Nazis got as far as they could get with their logistical constraints and Soviet resistance. I just doubt that the Red Army of 1939 would do significantly better than it did in 1941 as it is in the same relative position to the German Army. Toss in the Poles, which were really good troops (in every campaign, even the one they lost) and the German/Poles are very dangerous to Stalin.
 
Real Professionals are into Promotion prospects, not shuffling cargo about.

The path to having Stars on your Uniform does not often run thru a stint with G4

chuckle... well that is a valid point

The Combat Infantryman's Badge and a Bronze Star with a V for Valor is worth any number of Legion of Merit awards (when it comes to moving up the ladder)

It isn't much different in other Western Armies. For that matter looking like a heroic leader frequently matters more than real ability in peacetime and political pull is worth a huge amount.
 
Real Professionals are into Promotion prospects, not shuffling cargo about.

The path to having Stars on your Uniform does not often run thru a stint with G4

That's true in the Axis armies, at least, who did not let logistical concerns influence operational planning. The WAllies and later the Soviets took a very different tack, to say the least.

I think the Nazis got as far as they could get with their logistical constraints and Soviet resistance.

And IATL the Soviet resistance is relatively the same, once we adjust for everything on both sides. It is the German's logistical constraints which are much greater and that is the prime thing that will murder the depth of their advance.
 
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