What Would a Germany in the USSR Look Like?

Okay so frankly I’m less interested in how this happens, say it’s a perfect storm for communism with a more decisive Russian Civil War and German Revolution after a less harsh and sooner Brest-Litovsk (Trotsky doesn’t delay?) and therefore longer WWI. I’m more interested in what happens after.

So a Red Army-backed German Revolution gets at least to the Rhine before losing steam and finding French forces.

Lenin, who’d still be around for a few more years, wanted a USSR across Europe, Stalin was willing to concede a bit more to nationalism though.

My question, basically, is what would need to happen to have Germany in the USSR as a sort of German SFSR? What rights would need to be allowed and what events need to take place?
 
I'm not sure that the Russians would want Germany in the USSR, otl USSR was always Russia and a bunch of smaller nations under one umbrella. With Germany you have a nation that is on somewhat equal footing when it comes to population, military power, economic prowess, and industrial output. A German SFSR could well create a German USSR. With this in mind, you would have to avoid a nationalist like Stalin rising to power. The leader of the USSR would have to be someone that strongly believes that communism could sweep the world and that nationalism will cease to matter in the face of the World Revolution. It would probably be easier to have a Germany allied, but explicitly outside of the USSR.
 
I'm not sure that the Russians would want Germany in the USSR, otl USSR was always Russia and a bunch of smaller nations under one umbrella. With Germany you have a nation that is on somewhat equal footing when it comes to population, military power, economic prowess, and industrial output. A German SFSR could well create a German USSR. With this in mind, you would have to avoid a nationalist like Stalin rising to power. The leader of the USSR would have to be someone that strongly believes that communism could sweep the world and that nationalism will cease to matter in the face of the World Revolution. It would probably be easier to have a Germany allied, but explicitly outside of the USSR.

Well I mean if Lenin's idea of a pan-European USSR were to come to fruition, or at least one including Germany, what would it be like? How would that come about and what would Germany have to be promised to accept?
 
I doubt Poland will be around much longer. Now that it's surrounded by the USSR on both sides it's doomed.

On the other hand the POD could be that Poland lost the Polish-Soviet War which allows the USSR (probably under the leadership of Trotsky) to expand into Germany.
 
I'm not sure that the Russians would want Germany in the USSR,

This was actually a subject of debate between Lenin and Stalin in 1920, when Poland seemed to be facing defeat, and Germany was seen to be the next domino. As Robert Service writes in Stalin: A Biography:

"Stalin and Lenin also undertook preliminary planning for the kind of Europe they expected to organise when socialist seizures of power took place. Their grandiose visions take the breath away. Before the Second Comintern Congress, Lenin urged the need for a general federation including Germany, and he made clear that he wanted the economy of such a federation to be ‘administered from a single organ’. Stalin rejected this as impractical:

"If you think you’d ever get Germany to enter a federation with the same rights as Ukraine, you are mistaken. If you think that even Poland, which has been constituted as a bourgeois state with all its attributes, would enter the Union with the same rights as Ukraine you are mistaken.

"Lenin was angry. The implication of Stalin’s comment was that considerations of national pride would impel Russia and Germany to remain separate states for the foreseeable future. Lenin sent him a ‘threatening letter’ which charged him with chauvinism.27 It was Lenin’s objective to set up a Union of Soviet Republics of Europe and Asia. His vision of ‘European socialist revolution’ was unchanged since 1917. But Stalin held his ground. The Politburo had to acknowledge the realities of nationhood if the spread of socialism in Europe was to be a success.

"These discussions were hypothetical since the Red Army had not yet reached Poland, far less set up a revolutionary government in Warsaw..." http://www.rulit.me/books/stalin-a-biography-read-280295-56.html

For a slightly different translation of what Stalin said in 1923 see J. Smith, The Bolsheviks and the National Question, 1917–23:

"I said [to Lenin] - and this is all preserved in the archives of the Central Committee – that that would not work. If you think the nationalities of former Russia will stay in a framework of federalisation – that is understandable enough, but if you think that Germany will at some point come to you to join a federation with the same rights as Ukraine – you are mistaken. If you think that even Poland, which has taken the form of a bourgeois state with all its attributes, will enter into the composition of a union with the same rights as Ukraine – you are mistaken. That is what I said then. And comrade Lenin sent out a long letter - that is chauvinism , nationalism, we need a centralized world economy, run from a single organ."

Smith adds "Stalin's account of his own letter is accurate, so it is reasonable to suppose that his summary of Lenin's reply, which may also have been known to members of his audience, is equally correct."

On the next page, Smith summarizes: "If Stalin's 1923 speech is accurate, then, Lenin had accused him of chauvinism and nationalism for denying that Germany and Poland could be treated on the same basis as the Ukraine. Thus in 1920 Lenin wanted a union of all Soviet republics, including those yet to be built, while Stalin did not believe this was possible – Lenin was the centraliser, Stalin the separatist - the very opposite of [the traditional interpretation]..." https://books.google.com/books?id=pSZ9DAAAQBAJ&pg=PA179
 

first of all thanks for the quotes, they're great

secondly, while I understand that this is true, what do you think it would take for a German SFSR, maybe some with the same sort of situation in the USSR beforehand (this was early in the revolution maybe it's possible a new constitution is made?) to enter?
 
hm so it'd probably be more likely to keep Germany independent both to keep power in Moscow and to not have to deal with immediately destroying nationalism?
 
Stalin wrote in 1923 that "The victory of the revolution in Germany would have more substantive significance for the proletariat of Europe and America than the victory of the Russian Revolution six years ago. The victory of the German proletariat would undoubtedly shift the center of the world revolution from Moscow to Berlin.” http://www.rulit.me/books/stalin-volume-i-paradoxes-of-power-1878-1928-read-379183-170.html Of course this was written for the German Communist organ Die Rote Fahne, and was propaganda. But there was a truth in it, and one unwelcome to Stalin: the victory of Communism in Germany would considerably diminish the importance of the Russian Communists within the world Communist movement. For example, there would likely be a movement to relocate the headquarters of the Comintern in Berlin. Moreover, Stalin would have to deal with men like Brandler and Thalheimer who were not his puppets (in OTL the failure of the 1923 German revolution made them scapegoats and Stalin was able to install his loyalist Thälmann as head of the KPD).
 
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