What would a "Best of the lot" 1943 fighter aircraft look like?

Not a 1943 aircraft
WTH, is this thread catnip for contrarians?

It doesn't matter when the aircraft was made. AIUI, this thread is about using the best of 1943's tech to make the best fighter.

Go ahead and put Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp in a Polikarpov I-16 and see if it'll work. Contrarians be damned!
 

hipper

Banned
WTH, is this thread catnip for contrarians?

It doesn't matter when the aircraft was made. AIUI, this thread is about using the best of 1943's tech to make the best fighter.

Go ahead and put Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp in a Polikarpov I-16 and see if it'll work. Contrarians be damned!

All I'm saying is that the best fighter that could be built in 1943 was in fact built,
WTH, is this thread catnip for contrarians?

It doesn't matter when the aircraft was made. AIUI, this thread is about using the best of 1943's tech to make the best fighter.

Go ahead and put Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp in a Polikarpov I-16 and see if it'll work. Contrarians be damned!


The best fighter had the best engine married to a light Aircraft you'd have to go some to improve on it.

A Fw190 with a double wasp might however be superior. But it would be impossible to say for sure
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
1000 lbs heavier than the Mk 14 spit with 600 HP less

But can the Spit XIV fly to Berlin from Suffolk, or Japan from Iwo Jima? NO.

Are its wings plumbed for drop tanks? NO.

Under OP rules, I would choose the Merlin-Mustang over ANYTHING. Jet or piston.
 
But can the Spit XIV fly to Berlin from Suffolk, or Japan from Iwo Jima? NO.

Are its wings plumbed for drop tanks? NO.

Under OP rules, I would choose the Merlin-Mustang over ANYTHING. Jet or piston.

Well it was possible for the Spit XIV to carry up to 145 Gallons internally (if equipped with the 33 Gallon rear tank) and up to a 90 Gallon conformal belly tank - not too shabby for a dinky little interceptor
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
not too shabby for a dinky little interceptor

I gather you've not stood near an actual, full size Spitfire XIV, in real life.

'Dinky' ?

I despair.

FYI, combat radius of a Spit XIV was 300 miles, if it didn't get into combat.
Deduct 75 miles from that, if it did.
 
F4-U Corsair with solid wings plumbed for drop tanks. Arm it with four 20MM cannon. Basically the F4U-4 showing up early. You can keep the six fifty caliber variant but plumb it for drop tanks.
 
I gather you've not stood near an actual, full size Spitfire XIV, in real life.

'Dinky' ?

I despair.

FYI, combat radius of a Spit XIV was 300 miles, if it didn't get into combat.
Deduct 75 miles from that, if it did.

You could not have gathered wronger in your life sir!

Lovely airplane and the best fighter of Big Mistake Number 2 at actually fighting another Fighter particulalrly at the rarefied heights at which it hunted and was bred for.

And parked next to a Tiffi or a P47 it's definitely dinky - it's like a cup hilt rapier next to a pair of claymores, like cut crystal glass next to a pair of pint glass's, like a pair of fine fitted dancing shoes, next to a pair of combat boots......

Most of the documentation I have found puts the Spit XIV at 400 odd miles combat radius with a kick up at the end if the 33 Gallon rear tank is used* and the 90 gallon slipper tank* is carried too

*Notes suggest that it was not nice to fly until the rear tank was drained (which would be on initial warm up, taxi and climb to altitude) and that only 'straight flying' should be used while the 90 Gallon tank is fitted - which would be jettisoned before combat.

Still not going to go as far as a Mustang III / D but then flying halfway across Europe wasn't the job it was designed for so I'm okay with it.
 
Some of Japan's fighters of the 1943 period were pretty sweet, provided they can get the best available engines, armour and self sealing tanks.

Put the Hellcat's motor in the Kawanishi N1K or Nakajima Ki-84 and you've got a contender.

800px-Nakajima_Ki84_Hayate_N3385G_ONT_18.10.70_edited-3.jpg
 
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FBKampfer

Banned
Oh, or maybe a German-built Yak-3 with a DB 605DC so it doesn't suck above 15K. One on one that would probably smack anything else around easy.
 
Romania was looking into procuring BMW 801s (which they couldn't because Germany was using them all) for a planned updated IAR 80. It probably wouldn't be a serious contender for "best" but giving a first rate engine to a plane that was capable of tangoing with W-Allied aircraft as late as 1944 could create quite a mean machine.
 

hipper

Banned
Well it was possible for the Spit XIV to carry up to 145 Gallons internally (if equipped with the 33 Gallon rear tank) and up to a 90 Gallon conformal belly tank - not too shabby for a dinky little interceptor

177 Gallons internaly with the Teardrop canopy and cut down rear fuselage, the rear tank was increased to 65 imperial Gallons

The Exeter Fighter wing would run fighter sweeps as far as the Swiss border.
 

hipper

Banned
You could not have gathered wronger in your life sir!

Lovely airplane and the best fighter of Big Mistake Number 2 at actually fighting another Fighter particulalrly at the rarefied heights at which it hunted and was bred for.

And parked next to a Tiffi or a P47 it's definitely dinky - it's like a cup hilt rapier next to a pair of claymores, like cut crystal glass next to a pair of pint glass's, like a pair of fine fitted dancing shoes, next to a pair of combat boots......

Most of the documentation I have found puts the Spit XIV at 400 odd miles combat radius with a kick up at the end if the 33 Gallon rear tank is used* and the 90 gallon slipper tank* is carried too

*Notes suggest that it was not nice to fly until the rear tank was drained (which would be on initial warm up, taxi and climb to altitude) and that only 'straight flying' should be used while the 90 Gallon tank is fitted - which would be jettisoned before combat.

Still not going to go as far as a Mustang III / D but then flying halfway across Europe wasn't the job it was designed for so I'm okay with it.


I'd point out that the Mustang had exactly the same problem with stability with a rear tank installed, it's a matter of physics.

It's still the best fighter in the air even with 2/3 the combat radius of the mustang.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
Still not going to go as far as a Mustang III / D but then flying halfway across Europe wasn't the job it was designed for so I'm okay with it.

The P-51B altered the nature of the air war over Europe strategically, in a way the Spitfire XIV did not

The Spit XIV was an excellent aircraft, one of my favourites, and the only single-engine WW2 fighter I've seen close at hand that was larger than a Mustang.

The best fighter of WW2 was not any mark of Spitfire, nor the Mustang, nor the Airacobra.

It was this.

3899927a5c696c2ebb181281e62bdbff.jpg


Having sat in the Merlin-engined Spanish version and the DB605 survivor, I wouldn't choose it for any Air Force even if you bribed me with a thousand bars of Nazi gold
 
HMMMMM - just off the top of my head and for a start

Something along the lines of a FW190 with 4 or even 6 British made HS404 short barrel, belt fed 20mm cannon in the wings, US Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp, British Bubble Canopy, US Drop tanks, fitted for zero length launch rails.

So basically the Sea Fury?
 
As long as you don't mind gun replacement as a regular maintenance item and a bit less muzzle velocity, I'd replace the HS404 with a Berezin B-20 to reduce weight on the wings and thus the moment of inertia about the fuselage.
 

hipper

Banned
But can the Spit XIV fly to Berlin from Suffolk, or Japan from Iwo Jima? NO.

Are its wings plumbed for drop tanks? NO.

Under OP rules, I would choose the Merlin-Mustang over ANYTHING. Jet or piston.
The P-51B altered the nature of the air war over Europe strategically, in a way the Spitfire XIV did not

The Spit XIV was an excellent aircraft, one of my favourites, and the only single-engine WW2 fighter I've seen close at hand that was larger than a Mustang.

the 8th air force and supporting fighters altered the nature of the air war over Europe, if they had wanted a long range fighter in 1943 then they could have used a modified spitfire

there a nice article here suggesting how

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/escort-spitfire-a-missed-opportunity-for-longer-reach/
 
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