What the best way for the French to deal with the British in Spain (post 1809)???

[Catspoke]

Lets make this after 1809, so the course of the politics has been set, Wagram has already been won, so the French have a range of strategic options.

Obvious one is to avoid invading Russia in 1812, and commit Napoleon himself to Spain, but not sure that even can remove Wellington out Lisbon and its fortified defenses.
And Russia might just attack Napoleon anyway eventually.

 

[Wendell]

Lets make this after 1809, so the course of the politics has been set, Wagram has already been won, so the French have a range of strategic options.

Obvious one is to avoid invading Russia in 1809, and commit Napoleon himself to Spain, but not sure that even can remove Wellington out Lisbon and its fortified defenses.
And Russia might just attack Napoleon anyway eventually.

Napoleon likely has time though before the Russians would move against him given their wars with Persia and the Ottomans. He might even be able to buy off the Russians in/after whatever the peace with Austria looks like.

 

[Aghasverov]

"Leave" comes to mind But that would require either a different Napoleon or a dead Napoleon...

 

[Catspoke]

"Leave" comes to mind But that would require either a different Napoleon or a dead Napoleon...

Leaving in just withdraw to the Pyrenees? I suppose that ends the attrition. Perhaps trying to keep Aragon and Catalonia as part of France???

 

[Catspoke]

Napoleon likely has time though before the Russians would move against him given their wars with Persia and the Ottomans. He might even be able to buy off the Russians in/after whatever the peace with Austria looks like.

100,000 extra french soldiers in Spain in 1812 possibly? Is victory possible really though?

 

[Aghasverov]

Leaving in just withdraw to the Pyrenees? I suppose that ends the attrition. Perhaps trying to keep Aragon and Catalonia as part of France???

Eh, why bother.... Spain was nothing but trouble from the word "go" . Best to just cut your losses, withdraw with some loot (I'm sure Soult could manage that just fine ) and wait it out at the Pyrenees.

 

[Wendell]

Leaving in just withdraw to the Pyrenees? I suppose that ends the attrition. Perhaps trying to keep Aragon and Catalonia as part of France???

France should only keep Llivia and Val d'Aran.

 

[Wendell]

100,000 extra french soldiers in Spain in 1812 possibly? Is victory possible really though?

Spain was probably always a lost cause, but with more forces and ambitious/talented commanders in theater, who knows. The cool (but probably impossible) thing would be a siege of Gibraltar on land with an assist from Russia at sea...

 

[Catspoke]

France should only keep Llivia and Val d'Aran.

The geography of the region being easy to hold? Or were the locals more accepting of French rule?

 

[Catspoke]

Spain was probably always a lost cause, but with more forces and ambitious/talented commanders in theater, who knows. The cool (but probably impossible) thing would be a siege of Gibraltar on land with an assist from Russia at sea...

French Marshals seemed old and corrupt by 1810, Lannes is dead, might need Napoleon himself.

Probably need decent administrators like Suchet, and a different attitude about horse health.

 

[Wendell]

The geography of the region being easy to hold? Or were the locals more accepting of French rule?

They are easier to hold and north of the Pyrenees. If one wants France at its "natural borders", they would be included, and it's stuff that's not hard for Spain to part with, especially given that Llivia is an enclave completely surrounded by France.

 

[Wendell]

French Marshals seemed old and corrupt by 1810, Lannes is dead, might need Napoleon himself.

Probably need decent administrators like Suchet, and a different attitude about horse health.

Or, depending on the POD, Bernadotte remains available.

 

[Catspoke]

They are easier to hold and north of the Pyrenees. If one wants France at its "natural borders", they would be included, and it's stuff that's not hard for Spain to part with, especially given that Llivia is an enclave completely surrounded by France.

It's better if you can actually make peace with Spain vs just a less intense attritional war on the Pyrenees.

Regardless Spain and Portugal are trading with Britain, and Britain can do a 10 year further blockade and will if the French are still in Holland.

France can fight off anything that happens in Germany without the continuing Spanish Ulcer though.

So a stalemate.

 

[Simreeve]

100,000 extra french soldiers in Spain in 1812 possibly? Is victory possible really though?

How would he feed them there? The OTL French forces in Spain had enough trouble obtaining supplies as it was...

 

[Catspoke]

How would he feed them there? The OTL French forces in Spain had enough trouble obtaining supplies as it was...

Agree, not with 1810 means, no rails. Have to pacify the areas and have large depots, all dragged forward by wagon.

 

[Wendell]

It's better if you can actually make peace with Spain vs just a less intense attritional war on the Pyrenees.

Regardless Spain and Portugal are trading with Britain, and Britain can do a 10 year further blockade and will if the French are still in Holland.

France can fight off anything that happens in Germany without the continuing Spanish Ulcer though.

So a stalemate.

A minor border adjustment les the French claim victory while Spain is spared further bloodshed and has more time to (fail to) restore its colonial empire.