What should the allies have done at Versailles (and in otehr 1919 treaties)

[Magnificate]

It's a federal state.

I'm afraid it wouldn't work. Poland would soon dominate Lithuania and the Federation would be in name only. Unless there is a way to prevent that?

Put the capital in Vilnius and protect the language rights of both parts

Capital in Vilnius? That is sure to spark controversy since even during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth period Warsaw was the capital.

 

[Wendell]

I'm afraid it wouldn't work. Poland would soon dominate Lithuania and the Federation would be in name only. Unless there is a way to prevent that?

Require legislation to be approved by majorities in both halves of the Union.

Capital in Vilnius? That is sure to spark controversy since even during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth period Warsaw was the capital.

I'm aware, but Vilnius is ideal, because both halves would claim it as theirs anyway.

 

[Magnificate]

Require legislation to be approved by majorities in both halves of the Union.

Interesting solution. However there might be two problems:
1. Require? The Federation itself is unlikely to come up with a law like that. It would have to be somehow enforced by the Entente.
2. Polish minority in Lithuania is much stronger than Lithuanian minority in Poland. Perhaps even to the point that Poles could force majority pro-Polish parliament in Lithuania.

 

[Xgentis]

They should have divided Germany into 3 or 4 independent states.

 

[History lover]

They should have divided Germany into 3 or 4 independent states.

Which would then unite on their own or unite with Austria one by one.

 

[BlairWitch749]

they should have looked objectively at germany and seen they had a huge internal security problem... and allowed them to bring their army down to 1914 levels (a little under 500k) which would have brought domestic security under control much more quickly and done a better job to legitimize the weimar gov't... also it likely butterflies away the friekorps and other sorts of militias that created a backdrop of instability and militarism that enabled the nazi's to come to power

and even if allowing them a 500k army is a bitter pill to swallow in the beginning its actually brilliant because after the security situation is more under control, the government will find they cannot afford to field such a large force, and will demobilize them of their own accord; eliminating the mindset of being shackled by the treaty

 

[abc123]

the government will find they cannot afford to field such a large force, and will demobilize them of their own accord; eliminating the mindset of being shackled by the treaty

Sorry for off-topic, but the same solution could be applied on Japan in Washington Naval Conference, why not to let them to build 5:5:5 with US and UK, they have no money for that.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

I would have ceded Posen to Poland, and united the new state with Lithuania. Germany still loses its colonies and Alsace-Lorraine, but not the Saar or Ruhr.

Italy gets Trieste and the Italophone districts of Tyrol. Austria retains the rest of what was before the war Cisleithania sans the Czech lands and Galicia. Hungary retains Slovakia and Transylvania.

Croatia, Bosnia, and Banat unite as Croatia, a monarchy under some Italian noble.

Romania gains Bukovina and Bessarabia.

Belgium gets Luxembourg, and Serbia gets Montenegro.

Thus, with the exception of Czechia, Germany is surrounded by somewhat larger and more powerful states.

Give it some decades and the Poles would have forcibly Polonized Lithuania anyway, no way Lithuania could survive in a federation with Poland, the Polish pressure to abolish Lithuania would be too big.

Hungary getting to keep anything is nearly impossible. North Transylvania is a distant possibility if Bela Kun never happened, but even then not likely.

Croatia as an independent state would probably be to weak to survive for long (the Croats knew this). And why on Earth would they get the Banat? No Croats there.

Luxemburg voted OTL to not unify with Belgium, and Belgium would not be much stronger with Luxemburg.

 

[Xgentis]

Which would then unite on their own or unite with Austria one by one.

How are they going to do that without starting another war?

 

[History lover]

How are they going to do that without starting another war?

By ceding only parts of their territories at a time.

 

[Xgentis]

By ceding only parts of their territories at a time.

How are they going to do that without starting another war since reuniting even part of it's territories would be counsidered an act of war?

 

[History lover]

How are they going to do that without starting another war since reuniting even part of it's territories would be counsidered an act of war?

Why should they be afarid of war? The western democracies tried to avoid war with germany at all costs between 1933-1939.There is no reason they will want to go to war with a state which will probably contain as many extreme patriots with millitary traditions as there is lava in hell.

 

[Mulder]

Why should they be afarid of war? The western democracies tried to avoid war with germany at all costs between 1933-1939.There is no reason they will want to go to war with a state which will probably contain as many extreme patriots with millitary traditions as there is lava in hell.

Exactly, and IOTL Britain already got second thoughts about a far milder treaty. So it's a safe bet that if the French get their will and there are no other significant factors to change British public opinion, Britain won't do anything if Germany reunifies. Italy does not give a damn about Germany proper as long as Austria stays outside of it, Czechoslovakia is to weak to do anything (and their Sudeten-German and Hungarian troops would be utterly unreliable anyway), and Poland has the Soviets waiting behind its back. So there is only France alone to keep Germany from reunifying. And France does not have the manpower to do so. So even if Germany is partitioned, it will simply reunify later.

 

[Mikestone8]

Why should they be afarid of war? The western democracies tried to avoid war with germany at all costs between 1933-1939.There is no reason they will want to go to war with a state which will probably contain as many extreme patriots with millitary traditions as there is lava in hell.

Which is the whole problem for any WI which mucks about with the Treaty of Versailles.

The problem with the ToV was not its terms, which were workable given the will to enforce them, but the fact that once people had got back on to a peacetime footing that will did not exist. Unless you can change that underlying fact, no amount of tinkering with the terms is going to make much difference.

 

[rast]

The problem with the ToV was not its terms, which were workable given the will to enforce them, but the fact that once people had got back on to a peacetime footing that will did not exist.

The solution would be to have a negotiated peace to which the vanquished agreed. The big problem of the ToV was that it was a dictate, which the Germans perceived as something they had been forced to sign - but were not obliged to execute (if not forced to).
I agree that the terms were not the main problem, it was the form how they were delivered.

 

[BlairWitch749]

The solution would be to have a negotiated peace to which the vanquished agreed. The big problem of the ToV was that it was a dictate, which the Germans perceived as something they had been forced to sign - but were not obliged to execute (if not forced to).
I agree that the terms were not the main problem, it was the form how they were delivered.

terms where a big problem rast...100k army was far too small to maintain internal security and it left the country is suido anarchy for far too long

not allowing them to have a larger army than 1914 would have been far less stinging

 

[Winston Smith]

Personally, I would have given Aslace-Lorraine to France. There wouldn't be any other option without France going bannanas. Hold Plebicites in all the contested areas. Allow German-Austria to be unified with Weimar. All Germany an Army, a Navy and an Air Force, but put limitations on it's size (any ideas here?). Set reperations at a level that Germany can pay back (although I have seen arguements that Germany could've paid the OTL ones). Any thing this is in any way plausible?

 

[rast]

not allowing them to have a larger army than 1914 would have been far less stinging

Internal security was a matter of the police. And the Weimar Republic police forces were very well armed.
Nevertheless, I agree about the mistake. The small size virtually forced the Reichswehr to become a highly mobile force. Thus, the seeds of Blitzkrieg were planted at Versailles.

 

[Uriel]

What ever they decide to do with Germany do it quick and then let it heal.

The worst they did OTL was the almost constant bullying of the more or less reasonable German goverments throughout the 20s & early 30s and then suddenly backing down to Hitler.

 

[BlairWitch749]

Internal security was a matter of the police. And the Weimar Republic police forces were very well armed.
Nevertheless, I agree about the mistake. The small size virtually forced the Reichswehr to become a highly mobile force. Thus, the seeds of Blitzkrieg were planted at Versailles.

internal security wasn't a matter for the police when you had company sized groups of bandits/trouble makers et all armed with machine guns roaming the streets of munich. If the army had stayed relatively large (500k men for arguments sake) they could have put good sized detachments in each city to more quickly restore internal order and display to the right wing ultra nationalists AND the communists that weimar was effectively in control and any attempted crap on their part would be met with swift imprisonment and execution